"It is Finished and Jesus is Lord"

[Robert Pate]

The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ is the most significant event in the history of the world. Just before Jesus died on the cross he said, "It is finished" John 19:30. What did Jesus mean when he said that? What Jesus meant is ........................QUOTE]

By whose authority do you tells us what Jesus meant?
If Jesus saiod, 'It is finished', then he could have meant that his movement had failed, or that his life was over.
I think that Jesus felt that all was lost, because the Historic Gospels of Mark and Matthew both record that just before he said those last words, he cried out:
Mark {15:34}
Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted,
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew {27:46}
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God,
my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

...and the Historic Gopspel of Luke explains:
Luke {23:46} And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he
said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and
having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

..... so I don't think that you've got this right.

It appears that you don't believe that the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus accomplished anything.

You are what I call an unbeliever.

 

[daqq]

There is actually authority from the scripture which explains that statement, (not me, but the scripture), in fact, from the same author; and if any would receive it the passage reveals that the Testimony of Messiah is what is finished when the Master says that at Golgotha. Thus the Testimony of Messiah is itself the "new covenant Spirit", (because testimony is spirit whether for the good or whether for the evil). This may be understood by a simple reading of the following passage without adding any words to it like most English translations do. I have found that from the English renderings the Young's Literal Bible Translation is one of the very few which actually renders it without adding the word "given" into the text. That word, (the Greek equivalent), is not found in any codex or manuscript even though most English renderings incorrectly insert it into the text because they do not understand that the Testimony of Messiah is actually the new covenant Spirit, (meaning that to have "the Spirit" one must actually be IN the Testimony of Messiah to be "IN Messiah", actually DOING his teachings and commandments, and not just claiming some ethereal presence for having made a one-time confession of "faith"). Read the following and understand that when the text says "Jesus was not yet glorified" the author means lifted up at Golgotha, (glorified being the same as exalted or lifted up).

And do not add "given" into the text because it does not belong there:

John 7:37-39 YLT (Young's Literal Bible Translation)
37 And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, 'If any one doth thirst, let him come unto me and drink;
38 he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

There it is as plain as day:

"For not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified", (at Golgotha).

The "new covenant Spirit" is the Testimony of Messiah, and it was not finished until Golgotha when the Master cried out, "It is finished", meaning his full Testimony; which if we observe, heed, do, and carry out in our own walk, is our sanctification and our salvation because it is the soterion-peace-offering that reconciles us unto the Father.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 18:31 KJV
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Spirit = New Covenant Spirit = Testimony of Messiah.

 

[eider]

There is actually authority from the scripture which explains that statement,There it is as plain as day:...............................

"For not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified", (at Golgotha)..............

Hi......... No..... not as clear as day. I notice that you did not attempt to explain Jesus's words as reported in Matthew and Mark.

I notice the addition in brackets '(at Golgotha)'........ is that your addition?

 

[Robert Pate]

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 18:31 KJV
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Spirit = New Covenant Spirit = Testimony of Messiah.

I noticed in your post that you did not mention the Gospel, not even once.

The whole Bible is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul said that "It is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16.

In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. It is by and through the Gospel that we are reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

 

[daqq]

I noticed in your post that you did not mention the Gospel, not even once.

The whole Bible is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul said that "It is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16.

In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. It is by and through the Gospel that we are reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

So then you do not believe that the Testimony of Messiah is the Gospel?
I mentioned the Testimony of Messiah quite a few times.
You response is quite telling.

 

[eider]

It appears that you don't believe that the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus accomplished anything.

You are what I call an unbeliever.

So you could not answer my post..........?
If everyone who asked for straight answers was just called 'unbeliever' and left by the wayside, would this have been the correct response?

I believe in Yeshua and his life and mission. But so far I am sad to say I don't believe in what you say.

 

[daqq]

Hi......... No..... not as clear as day. I notice that you did not attempt to explain Jesus's words as reported in Matthew and Mark.

I notice the addition in brackets '(at Golgotha)'........ is that your addition?

Do you want me to put the statements from the other Gospel accounts all in order for you? I can. As for an addition are you color blind? You cannot tell the difference between blue and black font? (or what parenthesis mean?)? And do you not believe the Son of man was lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even as the Master said it would be in John 3 to Nicodemus? Lifted up is the same as exalted which is essentially glorified in a supernal way because the Master said it would draw all men unto himself. You are actually denying common sense and reason which has all been gathered straight from the scripture. Tsk. tsk.

 

[Robert Pate]

So then you do not believe that the Testimony of Messiah is the Gospel?
I mentioned the Testimony of Messiah quite a few times.
You response is quite telling.

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that reconciles us to God.

In our name and on our behalf he fulfilled every jot and tittle of God's holy law, Matthew 5:18.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[daqq]

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that reconciles us to God.

In our name and on our behalf he fulfilled every jot and tittle of God's holy law, Matthew 5:18.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Now you are confessing by omission that you do not believe the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts is the Gospel.

 

[Robert Pate]

So you could not answer my post..........?
If everyone who asked for straight answers was just called 'unbeliever' and left by the wayside, would this have been the correct response?

I believe in Yeshua and his life and mission. But so far I am sad to say I don't believe in what you say.

Then you don't believe the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

 

[Robert Pate]

Now you are confessing by omission that you do not believe the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts is the Gospel.

The testimony of Jesus is that he has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and has reconciled a world of lost sinners unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

 

[daqq]

The testimony of Jesus is that he has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and has reconciled a world of lost sinners unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Again you are avoiding what I asked you like the plague. Is the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts the Gospel or not? You said I never mentioned the Gospel but, in fact, I mentioned the Testimony of Messiah multiple times in what you responded to when you said that. You apparently do not believe the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts is the Gospel because you have now made that very clear by way of what is now your third deflection. How can you claim to have and uphold the Gospel when you do not believe the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts is the Gospel? It is not rocket science: either you believe the Testimony of Messiah, and if you truly do then you carry it out in your walk and your life, or you do not actually follow the Messiah whose words, parables, teachings, and doctrines are found in the Gospel accounts.

 

[Zeke]

It appears that you don't believe that the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus accomplished anything.

You are what I call an unbeliever.

Acts 17:28, John 1:9, that includes every man that enters this world and no one ascends who didn't first descend from Heaven John 3:13, John 12:24, so all will come eventually in their own order, seeing death has no jurisdiction over life.

 

[eider]

Then you don't believe the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Look..... Robert, if you quoted the bible, just the bible, without making your own editions, explanations etc, then that might help.

Christians are commanded to remain within, and not rebel against..... 'the truth', I believe?
(1 CORINTHIANS 16:22; GALATIANS 1:8-9)

 

[eider]

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that reconciles us to God.

In our name and on our behalf he fulfilled every jot and tittle of God's holy law, Matthew 5:18.

................

No........ In Mat 5:18 Jesus explains that he is supporting the Old Laws for the Jews, and does not intend to change one word......not anything in any new covenant for you. There is no doubt about this:-
{5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the
prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For
verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be
fulfilled.

 

[daqq]

I see Robert's eyes must have rolled back into his head again.

Do these words haunt you RP?

"Testimony of Jesus in the Gospel accounts" . . .
"Testimony of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts" . . .
"Testimony of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts" . . .

:devil: :chuckle:

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion.

After Jesus fulfilled the law, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. Because of the work of Christ we now stand complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

This means that your religion is worthless.

 

[DAN P]

Robert,

We don't speak much... but I have a proposal... noting an observation I have made. I have made peace with AMR and Lon because they separate essential doctrines from non essential doctrines.

They acknowledge that salvation is by Jesus alone. I hate pointing fingers... but perhaps it's time to separate the Hyper Calvinists from the Reformed that are worthy gospel workman.

I'm dropping a list of Hyper Calvinists.

Nang
Nanja
Beloved57
TulipBee
..........

These Hyper Calvinist individuals corrupt Grace by exalting their Theology above Jesus. I'm bringing this up because [MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] are excellent teachers of Grace and Salvational assurance and again... they put Jesus first... they just fly different affiliation colors than you or I.

Your thread is beautiful.....! I know we all see things from different angles... but I'm detecting an attack of Grace and Salvational assurance from [MENTION=9592]Shasta[/MENTION]. I tried to warn them, but they are collaborating with people like Lazy Afternoon, Daqq and such.

I'm not even certain if Shasta believes that Jesus is God.

Anyhow.. Don't relinquish this thread! It is beautiful and critical!!! There is a works based attack occurring. It's apparent on this thread and the words people are responding with.

I don't know if you believe in the implications of Romans 11:25-36 involving prophecy and the Jews, correlated with God's Love for Israel... but... there are two dead give always that people are out of order....

1) If they deny the utter sufficiency of Jesus' Blood, Burial and Ressurection.
2) If they turn the Done into Do.
3)If they reject God's promises to Israel of the OT.

3 is not a dead ringer for a tell... but 1 and 2 are! Thus... These Kers that would preach works are subject to Titus 1:11.

My point? Perhaps when we attack Calvinism... we should attack Hyper Calvinism. This way... [MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] have a chance to instruct the individuals that exalt Calvin and Reformed doctrine over Christ. I know this is a straight forward gospel thread... but this is simply a thought that has been crossing my mind lately and because you are a Christ only power house... I figured I would drop a suggestion to help us band together to counter the works based crowd THAT BELIEVE ITS OUR FLESH THAT DETERMINES OUR SALVATION.

I write this in the Spirit of (1 Co. 1:13)

All respect and Christian Love,

- EE

Hi and what is does it means " IT IS FINISHED ."

The Greek word FINISHED is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD >

#1 . The INDICATIVE MOOD means that Jesus coming is now FINISHED !!

#2 .The PASSIVE VOICES means that Jesus LAID down His life to redeem man , all men !!

#3 The PERFECT TENSE means that Jesus can NEVER die again for sins , EVER AGAIN !!

#4 This then means Jesus had to die for SINS , PAST , PRESENT and for FUTURE SINS !!

So much for Clavinism and Covenant Theology !!

dan p

 

[Robert Pate]

Beware of any doctrine or any person that places their doctrine or their religion in the same room with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel concerns Jesus and his work of redemption on behalf of fallen man. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what God has accomplished in his Son Jesus Christ. All that is required of us is to believe it.

 

[marhig]

Do you want me to put the statements from the other Gospel accounts all in order for you? I can. As for an addition are you color blind? You cannot tell the difference between blue and black font? (or what parenthesis mean?)? And do you not believe the Son of man was lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even as the Master said it would be in John 3 to Nicodemus? Lifted up is the same as exalted which is essentially glorified in a supernal way because the Master said it would draw all men unto himself. You are actually denying common sense and reason which has all been gathered straight from the scripture. Tsk. tsk.

Hi Daqq

I believe lifted up to mean lifted up in our hearts, as once he is lifted up in us he is glorified through us. Is this what you mean?