ECT Is your pastor deceiving you, or is he just ignorant?

[ZacharyB]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

 

[fishrovmen]

Does "falling from grace" mean the loss of salvation to you?

 

[rougueone]

Didn't we just have 3-5 threads on this subject?

Romans 10;8,9,10


The Word Brings Salvation
…8But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART "-- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.…
Pretty simple. And there are many examples in the Bible.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

Paul never at any time says "if you choose to keep on sinning without serious confession and repentance you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation"

He does speak of loss of reward, he does speak of chastisement.

Where does the bible speak of "progressive" holiness?

Have you been sanctified once for all time by a single sacrifice or not?
How many times did Christ bear your sins?
How many of your sins did He bear?
when will He come and bear any more of them?

If He died bearing YOUR sins, was buried and was raised again to newness of life and YOU with Him....how can you now go back?

That's what Hebrews says...it is impossible

 

[fishrovmen]

Zachary,
When you quoted Romans 8, you forgot verse #1 and #9.
NO MORE condemnation if you are in Christ!
If you have His Spirit, you are His!

 

[ZacharyB]

Does "falling from grace" mean the loss of salvation to you?

Yes.

 

[ZacharyB]

Paul never at any time says "if you choose to keep on sinning without serious confession and repentance you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation"

It's not what Paul does not say; it's what he does say that counts.
Sorry that you choose to believe "the doctrines of men" over the Scriptures.

 

[Totton Linnet]

It's not what Paul does not say; it's what he does say that counts.
Sorry that you choose to believe "the doctrines of men" over the Scriptures.

Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Which sins do you say are able to separate you from God's love?

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Didn't we just have 3-5 threads on this subject?

Tares run wild on the web, nothing to discipline them. Their game is to try to tear down sound doctrine, cause senseless disputes, and, most of all, spread doubt. What I find disheartening is how people are arguing over baby's milk, settled doctrines among the body of authentic believers the past couple thousand years. It is actually so very boring, reading people who can't even get grace straight, as if there are those stuck in Sunday school.

But this is why there are thread after thread, beating the same dead horses. You'll find a number of tares are "one trick ponies" even, specializing in one, repeating diatribe that will never end, as long as they're getting attention. (There is also a lot of mental illness out there, people venting anger due to sociopathic disorders: many, many trolls.) Some specialize in tearing down the rapture, others pushing legal bondage, still others trying to make people question their salvation, and not to forget people pushing their cults online, because they have no other audience that will listen.

All they really do is make forums undesirable for any mature believer, when all they can offer is ignorance and error, what escapes me what they believe they're accomplishing. People who believe the lie are lost in the first place, no Holy Spirit truth, people of the Spirit seeing through it all. It's just a senseless, unprofitable waste.

1 Timothy 6

3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[heir]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!

If only they were preaching the grace of God! People would be getting saved and coming unto the knowledge of the truth rather than being tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine perpetrated by deceitful workers behind pulpits today.


2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[heir]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,

You missed the gospel of your salvation!

 

[heir]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,

I can see that you assume all of the "NT" is TO you, but it's not! You need to discover where it is you fit in to God's plan! I'll tell you right now, you won't find it in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John or Hebrews through Revelation!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

Looks as if most of the Scriptures you've chosen, were written to and
speaking to the House of Israel? Do you consider yourself as part of
the House of Israel and living under the law? Those who are in the,
Body of Christ, have been cleansed/forgiven of all their sins, and
have been sealed, indwelt, and baptized into the Body of Christ.

They cannot lose that position. What denomination are you affiliated
with?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I can see that you assume all of the "NT" is TO you, but it's not! You need to discover where it is you fit in to God's plan! I'll tell you right now, you won't find it in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John or Hebrews through Revelation!

Amen Heir. I just noticed you posted the same basic truth.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You missed the gospel of your salvation!

He sees warnings, we see the Grace of God.

 

[heir]

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

The Bible says a lot of different things. To demonstrate, look at the passage you cited above.

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

It is in contrast to that which Paul writes:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The question you need to ask yourself is, which one is written TO ME?

I can tell you right now, it's not what Peter wrote. Peter is not the apostle of the Gentiles, Paul is (Romans 11:13 KJV). We don't follow Peter's doctrine, but Paul's!

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes.

Then, you don't know about the Grace Gospel.

 

[ZacharyB]

I can see that you assume all of the "NT" is TO you, but it's not! You need to discover where it is you fit in to God's plan! I'll tell you right now, you won't find it in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John or Hebrews through Revelation!

Would you care to give me in 1 or 2 sentences Paul's purpose of writing Romans 6?
Thanks in advance.

 

[ZacharyB]

The question you need to ask yourself is, which one is written TO ME?

Yes, the warnings are written ONLY to God's special elect group!
He is admonishing them to tow the line, get with the program, etc.
Especially to stop sinning!
If they do not, then they are NOT part of His elect.
To give dire warnings to anyone else would be a great waste of time.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, the warnings are written ONLY to God's special elect group!
He is admonishing them to tow the line, get with the program, etc.
Especially to stop sinning!
If they do not, then they are NOT part of His elect.
To give dire warnings to anyone else would be a great waste of time.

You like living under the law I take it?

It's a waste of time to believe the law can justify you.
It's a waste of time to believe the law can make you righteous.
It's a waste of time to believe the law can give life.

Until you are delivered from the law you will need every one of those dire warnings. :nono: