Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

Clete

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Science has not proven the vaccine safe or effective.
Yes, it has.

Vaccine salesmen and their cheerleaders just say that.
No, it's you are just saying things.

Not only do rational people and medical professionals have serious reservations about different vaccines, but also those in the general public who support vaccines and have been vaccinated still, by an overwhelming majority, wear masks because of fears of catching covid or giving covid.
Nonsense.
People wear masks after being vaccinated because that's what they've been told to do, not because of any science. If people were following anything resembling science, they'd have stopped wearing masks over a year ago. Masks do not work and never have, unlike these vaccines that have work stupendously well everywhere they've been tried!

What kind of sense does that make? It just means that the majority of those who support vaccines do not trust the vaccine's effectiveness against covid.
It doesn't mean that at all. The press and every government official alive has been stoking COVID panic for over a year. It's not surprising that people are scared. Propaganda does work on the average, weak minded lemming that has been taught from the time he was in kindergarten to obey the rules and not to worry about whether they make any sense.

Clete
 

marke

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Yes, it has.
No, there is no proof covid vaccines will not cause death, nor is there proof covid vaccines will prevent the vaccinated from getting covid. That fact is likely what is driving the majority of democrats, including Biden, to keep wearing masks after they are vaccinated. It turns out that covid vaccines don't cure blind devotion to erroneous leftist storylines and dogma.
 

JudgeRightly

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Yes, it has.

I think the arguments you and marke have been making ignore the fact that many of the vaccines that have been created were done so by using the body parts and tissues of dead babies.

If there was any reason to reject the vaccines, that would be it, because it would be immoral to approve of such vaccines.
 

Arthur Brain

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I think the arguments you and marke have been making ignore the fact that many of the vaccines that have been created were done so by using the body parts and tissues of dead babies.

If there was any reason to reject the vaccines, that would be it, because it would be immoral to approve of such vaccines.

The summary of this article being for those who may not read:

  • No COVID-19 vaccine contains cells from aborted fetuses.
  • A replica cell line from a fetus aborted in 1973 was used to develop the AstraZeneca/Oxford University vaccine. However, the vaccine itself does not contain fetal cells.
  • New mRNA vaccines, such as those being developed by Pfizer and Moderna, are synthetic vaccines, sequenced on a computer in a lab, and do not use fetal cell lines in their production.
 
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JudgeRightly

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My point remains.

Dead babies were used in the development of some of the vaccines.
 

Arthur Brain

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My point remains.

Dead babies were used in the development of some of the vaccines.
Did you read the entire article and the summary as I've edited above? Is your sole point that some of the research revolved around a case from 1973? These vaccines are not using tissues from dead babies JR.
 

JudgeRightly

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Did you read the entire article and the summary as I've edited above? Is your sole point that some of the research revolved around a case from 1973? These vaccines are not using tissues from dead babies JR.


 

Arthur Brain

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Kgov?!

Pass.
 

Arthur Brain

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K.

Why did you bother posting in this thread again if you aren't going to consider the evidence?
Oh, is this where I'm guilty of not 'considering evidence' if I don't happen to listen to a Kgov podcast? Why should I be obliged to do that exactly? How about you set out the salient points from it that prove that which you claim and let's go from there?
 

Arthur Brain

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There was more to my post than the kgov interview with Dr. Clem Persaud.

Try reading past the first line of a post sometime. Go back and read it again.
So you had a link whereby a company has stopped using aborted fetal cell lines in its polio vaccine. Cool. Doesn't alter the fact that Covid vaccines aren't using such anyway.
 

Clete

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No, there is no proof covid vaccines will not cause death, nor is there proof covid vaccines will prevent the vaccinated from getting covid.
Yes there is Marke! They've done several different studies and published the results. The Pfizer vaccine has proven over 99% effective in preventing COVID in adults who were intentionally exposed to the virus!

Not only that but even if you had no studies, the proof is in the pudding! COVID numbers across every demographic have gone down precipitously exactly in timing with the administration of the vaccine. That's true not just here in the U.S. but in every place that the vaccine has been made available and there has been no increase in deaths that can in any way be tied to the vaccine itself.

That fact is likely what is driving the majority of democrats, including Biden, to keep wearing masks after they are vaccinated. It turns out that covid vaccines don't cure blind devotion to erroneous leftist storylines and dogma.
The masks haven't ever had anything to do with preventing COVID! They do not work and anyone who has ever read a word of actual science concerning mask wearing knows that they do not work. Dr. Fouci KNOWS - he flat out KNOWS - FOR A FACT - that masks - ANY MASKS - do not prevent the spread of infectious respiratory diseases. There is scientific study after scientific study that's been done is several countries with many different respiratory diseases over decades of time that prove without any doubt whatsoever that wearing a mask, especially a cloth face covering like most people are wearing now, has no effect at all. The particles that spread the disease are simply far too small, far to large in number and far too aerosolized for anything short of an actuall gas mask to work against. If you can smell cooked food through your mask, then you can catch a respiratory disease through it too.

The left wants the woke masks for political reasons, not medical ones. It's called virtue signaling. It's a time honored tactic of Fascists and Communists the world over.

Clete
 

marke

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The summary of this article being for those who may not read:

  • No COVID-19 vaccine contains cells from aborted fetuses.
  • A replica cell line from a fetus aborted in 1973 was used to develop the AstraZeneca/Oxford University vaccine. However, the vaccine itself does not contain fetal cells.
  • New mRNA vaccines, such as those being developed by Pfizer and Moderna, are synthetic vaccines, sequenced on a computer in a lab, and do not use fetal cell lines in their production.
Fauci is a big supporter of research involving aborted baby body parts, as are many unbelievers involved with research and development using human cells. Yes, aborted baby tissues were used in the research and development of covid vaccines. That fact cannot be denied.
 

marke

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Did you read the entire article and the summary as I've edited above? Is your sole point that some of the research revolved around a case from 1973? These vaccines are not using tissues from dead babies JR.
Why deny the facts. Aborted baby tissues were used in the research and development of covid vaccines, no matter how hard liars try to disguise that fact.
 

Clete

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I think the arguments you and marke have been making ignore the fact that many of the vaccines that have been created were done so by using the body parts and tissues of dead babies.

If there was any reason to reject the vaccines, that would be it, because it would be immoral to approve of such vaccines.
I have been unable to confirm the truth of this. It smells like a myth to me. (Not saying it is! Just that I'm skeptical about the accusation.)

Also, I've only ever heard it said about the J&J vaccine. The technology behind the MRNA vaccines like Pfizer's got its start back in the 90s and so far as I've been able to discover has nothing at all to do with body parts from anyone, babies or otherwise. The vaccine simply instructs your own body to construct the spike proteins that are found on the outside of the virus. Your immune system then builds antibodies against those proteins which are then effective antibodies against the virus itself. It's some of the most elegant biological science that has ever been accomplished. There's little doubt that those two scientists who worked it out will get a Nobel Prize for it and rightly so.

Clete
 

marke

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Oh, is this where I'm guilty of not 'considering evidence' if I don't happen to listen to a Kgov podcast? Why should I be obliged to do that exactly? How about you set out the salient points from it that prove that which you claim and let's go from there?
Why do people try to hide facts they do not want others to know? I don't know. But dismissing facts for no good reason is inexcusable.
 

marke

Well-known member
So you had a link whereby a company has stopped using aborted fetal cell lines in its polio vaccine. Cool. Doesn't alter the fact that Covid vaccines aren't using such anyway.
No matter what covid vaccines are using, you should at least acknowledge that researchers used aborted fetal tissues in the research and development of the vaccine. In fact, modern covid vaccines are not really vaccines at all in the traditional sense of the word, but genetic medicines designed to alter genes in the patients.

In a "Wise Tradition" podcast, made by the Weston A. Price Foundation, Dr. David Martin calls the new mRNA COVID-19 vaccines gene therapy, and disputes that they are actual vaccines.
 

marke

Well-known member
Yes there is Marke! They've done several different studies and published the results. The Pfizer vaccine has proven over 99% effective in preventing COVID in adults who were intentionally exposed to the virus!

Not only that but even if you had no studies, the proof is in the pudding! COVID numbers across every demographic have gone down precipitously exactly in timing with the administration of the vaccine. That's true not just here in the U.S. but in every place that the vaccine has been made available and there has been no increase in deaths that can in any way be tied to the vaccine itself.


The masks haven't ever had anything to do with preventing COVID! They do not work and anyone who has ever read a word of actual science concerning mask wearing knows that they do not work. Dr. Fouci KNOWS - he flat out KNOWS - FOR A FACT - that masks - ANY MASKS - do not prevent the spread of infectious respiratory diseases. There is scientific study after scientific study that's been done is several countries with many different respiratory diseases over decades of time that prove without any doubt whatsoever that wearing a mask, especially a cloth face covering like most people are wearing now, has no effect at all. The particles that spread the disease are simply far too small, far to large in number and far too aerosolized for anything short of an actuall gas mask to work against. If you can smell cooked food through your mask, then you can catch a respiratory disease through it too.

The left wants the woke masks for political reasons, not medical ones. It's called virtue signaling. It's a time honored tactic of Fascists and Communists the world over.

Clete
OK. Supporters of the questionable vaccines claim the hundreds of deaths of patients shortly after taking the covid vaccine have not been proven to have caused their deaths. Nevertheless, in upcoming civil lawsuits, lawyers will not have to prove the vaccines caused their deaths. All they have to prove is the likelihood the vaccines caused their deaths, and there is not much defense against that kind of argument.
 
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