Is the King James Bible Infallible? King James Onlyism Exposed.
- Thread starter RCLady
- Start date
Try putting this discussion in a more positive light, sincerely. How about proof the NIV is superior to the KJV? So, if I may... let's put the translations to the proof test, Kiwi, rather truth test. This is what its all about, isn't it? Jesus spoke the truth, did He not? The Bible, all translations, are about truth, correct?
1) Was Rahab the Canaanite harlot in the ancestry of Jesus contrary to Leviticus 21:7 NIV, Leviticus 21:14 NIV, Leviticus 21:15 NIV, Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Joshua 3:10 NIV, Ezra 9:1, 2, 3, 7? The NIV spells the name of the wife of Salmon, RaHab (Matthew 1:5 NIV). But, the KJV spells the name of Salmon's wife RaCHab (Matthew 1:5 KJV) suggesting a different woman with names as different as Rachel and Raquel. How do you advise this potential convert to the your church, or refer them to a particular translation?
2) Can you please explain Genesis 4:23 NIV? Who did Lamech kill? Why did the alleged perpetrator want to injure Lamech in the first place? In the grand scheme of things... what lesson is to be learned here that doesn't sound like a random, drive-by shooting in God's word?
3) What is the significant of "sevenfold," and "seventy and sevenfold" in Genesis 4:24 NIV associated with Lamech killing someone... maybe two folk?
4) What's the problem with Noah being naked in his own tent in Genesis 9:22 NIV? What was the point of Ham telling his two brothers outside the tent, that their dad was naked in his own tent? In fact, what the Sam daylights was Ham doing in Noah's tent in the first place? Do you think Noah's wife might have been passed out, blind drunk, and butt-naked also in her and Noah's tent?
5) Why was Canaan cursed for something his father Ham did? What exactly was the curse of Canaan?
If there's any consolation, Kiwi... our highly esteemed posters AMR and Dialogos will likely retire to their studies, a good thing. It doesn't matter if the translators of all translations were gay. There is a difference between teaching from the pulpits, and teaching from the translations. The arrival generation ("seventy and sevenfold", Genesis 4:24 NIV) of our Savior was prophesied by no less than a descendant of Cain, a message hidden for six thousand years... Count these generations in Luke 3:38 NIV with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3... this prophesy is in all the translations! Was this some random coincidence in God's Holy Word? Lamech killed someone, proclaimed the mark of Cain, and poof... rather mysteriously and abruptly, that was the last we heard about Cain's descendants in the OT. What was the mark of Cain?
God's truth seems to find a way, folks. And, in all sincerity... I see the way more clearly with the KJV. And, it's not KJV Onlyism... or any other Bible Onlyism, or collection, thereof. Where's the Holy Spirit of TRUTH in this equation? Good people, this is no small task to address the above questions; a job for the Holy Spirit... not translators who I trust had an inkling. Peter was told to feed Jesus' sheep, lost sheep, btw. The NT wasn't even written, then... Sadly to say, if any one of us was up for slaughter... there's hardly enough OT meat (truth) on these bones to make lamb stew for one.
I became a Matthew 8:20 KJV follower because I was starving to death speaking of the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel 37. With all due respect to every poster, there's hardly a snack of God's truth on this thread... may God have mercy on us all!
kayaker
"Bible scholar"
Translation: An "expert", who is so arrogant, he/she thinks they are so smart, they can correct a perfect God, and a perfect book, and thus call Him/the Holy Bible a lie/liar, respectively, who did the best He could, but lost His master piece to the all powerful, corrupting elements of the rain, sand, wind, heat, cold, even though He created those same elements, and the universe, and raises the dead.....and He must now rely/trust the "manuscript detectives" to "help Him out" in finding this master peace, as they rummage through versions, concordances, scraps of ms., lexicons, unicials, majuscules, cursives, miniscules interlinears, the funny papers....and hold rummage sales wherein they offer all sorts of scrawny, scruffy, scraggly, leftover, tacky, tossed out, trashed, secondhand, second class, second-rate, paltry, worthless, odds and ends of "better renderings" that reflect the "subtil"(Gen. 3 KJV) nuances of a dead language, versions, translations, "root words", etc., all spewed over their theological yards/driveways, and clogging their ecclesiastical garages, all while assuring us country hillbillies/bumpkins that their junk is the finest, most improved, latest and greatest, better/best, all brand name goods-at least until the next rummage/garage sale.
Yes, these "Bible/Greek scholars" have more truth than us dumb bible believers. You kiddies that swear on your "the Greek", and your alleged "scholarship", can never find as much truth as a bible believer, because the first requisite for discovering the truth is a believing heart, and the next is a humble mind, and where these 2 ingredients are vacant, 100 years of formal education in "the original languages" will no more equip you to teach, preach, the truth, then 100 years as a communist, in the red army of China.
Bible believers, in contrast to bible correctors/agnostics("scholars"), have a Holy Bible, which we believe. It is perfect, because it is based on the faithfulness of God, not men, and on God's promise, not man's intellect. No one can prove otherwise, nor do they have to. Others are too ignorant to understand it. It's a heart problem-always has been, always will be.That is why they imagine the Holy Bible has errors, and they are too ignorant to believe the LORD God, and instead they believe sinful men, who also have found no errors in the Holy Bible, but, muse, "Here are my errors, from a corrupt bible, that corrects the KJB errors."
If you are not careful, bible correctors/agnostics/rummagers will "Greek/Hebrew" you out of faith in the Holy Bible, and into heathenism. If you are not careful, you can be drawn into their madness(Eccl. 10:13 KJV). I avoid this pitfall, by staying on topic. And the bible corrector/agnostic's topic is:
Nobody has a copy of the scriptures, that is inerrant, that anybody can preach, teach, much less believe. And, to "prove" this, they appeal to "the scriptures", which do not exist=trying to convince the sheep, the gullible babes in Christ, that God did not preserve His word, by appealing to the scriptures, which God did not preserve. It is called anti-thinking. It is called insanity.
"My bad"("The Modern 'the' English")-"nuttin'" like a bible believer, to ruin a "bible" study...
Translation: An "expert", who is so arrogant, he/she thinks they are so smart, they can correct a perfect God, and a perfect book, and thus call Him/the Holy Bible a lie/liar, respectively, who did the best He could, but lost His master piece to the all powerful, corrupting elements of the rain, sand, wind, heat, cold, even though He created those same elements, and the universe, and raises the dead.....and He must now rely/trust the "manuscript detectives" to "help Him out" in finding this master peace, as they rummage through versions, concordances, scraps of ms., lexicons, unicials, majuscules, cursives, miniscules interlinears, the funny papers....and hold rummage sales wherein they offer all sorts of scrawny, scruffy, scraggly, leftover, tacky, tossed out, trashed, secondhand, second class, second-rate, paltry, worthless, odds and ends of "better renderings" that reflect the "subtil"(Gen. 3 KJV) nuances of a dead language, versions, translations, "root words", etc., all spewed over their theological yards/driveways, and clogging their ecclesiastical garages, all while assuring us country hillbillies/bumpkins that their junk is the finest, most improved, latest and greatest, better/best, all brand name goods-at least until the next rummage/garage sale.
Yes, these "Bible/Greek scholars" have more truth than us dumb bible believers. You kiddies that swear on your "the Greek", and your alleged "scholarship", can never find as much truth as a bible believer, because the first requisite for discovering the truth is a believing heart, and the next is a humble mind, and where these 2 ingredients are vacant, 100 years of formal education in "the original languages" will no more equip you to teach, preach, the truth, then 100 years as a communist, in the red army of China.
Bible believers, in contrast to bible correctors/agnostics("scholars"), have a Holy Bible, which we believe. It is perfect, because it is based on the faithfulness of God, not men, and on God's promise, not man's intellect. No one can prove otherwise, nor do they have to. Others are too ignorant to understand it. It's a heart problem-always has been, always will be.That is why they imagine the Holy Bible has errors, and they are too ignorant to believe the LORD God, and instead they believe sinful men, who also have found no errors in the Holy Bible, but, muse, "Here are my errors, from a corrupt bible, that corrects the KJB errors."
If you are not careful, bible correctors/agnostics/rummagers will "Greek/Hebrew" you out of faith in the Holy Bible, and into heathenism. If you are not careful, you can be drawn into their madness(Eccl. 10:13 KJV). I avoid this pitfall, by staying on topic. And the bible corrector/agnostic's topic is:
Nobody has a copy of the scriptures, that is inerrant, that anybody can preach, teach, much less believe. And, to "prove" this, they appeal to "the scriptures", which do not exist=trying to convince the sheep, the gullible babes in Christ, that God did not preserve His word, by appealing to the scriptures, which God did not preserve. It is called anti-thinking. It is called insanity.
"My bad"("The Modern 'the' English")-"nuttin'" like a bible believer, to ruin a "bible" study...
everready
New member
Its not just Dave Stewart.
http://www.google.com/custom?q=west...lebelievers.com&sitesearch=biblebelievers.com
everready
kiwimacahau
Well-known member
They are all quoting from either Benjamin G. Wilkinson or J.J. Ray's redaction of that work. Herewith Wilkinson's errors and another essay on KJV-Onlyism.
Mocking You
New member
This is typical fare. One person writes a (flawed) book, then another one writes a book heavily quoting the first author. Then the bandwagoneers quote these two books.
BTW, your links don't work.
kiwimacahau
Well-known member
Dang! Let's try this again: J.J. Ray's redaction of Wilkinson's book and Kutilek's book on KJV Onlyism
everready
New member
The Attack!
The Attack!
You ought to really find this a good read, called The Attack
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp
everready
The Attack!
You ought to really find this a good read, called The Attack
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp
everready
kiwimacahau
Well-known member
Jack Chick? Really?
Daniel1611
New member
Show me where any translation is better than the KJV, and explain why it is superior.
As D.A. Waite explains in great detail in "Defending the King James Bible," The KJV is superior to ALL modern Bible versions in its manuscripts, translators, translation technique and theology. What can anyone say about the NIV or NLT?
The modern versions based on the Critical Text and such manuscripts are not only inferior to the KJV, but they are of the devil. That's why they are created by apostates, homos and other nonbelievers.
As D.A. Waite explains in great detail in "Defending the King James Bible," The KJV is superior to ALL modern Bible versions in its manuscripts, translators, translation technique and theology. What can anyone say about the NIV or NLT?
The modern versions based on the Critical Text and such manuscripts are not only inferior to the KJV, but they are of the devil. That's why they are created by apostates, homos and other nonbelievers.
False Prophet
New member
John Wycliffe set the tone for the Authorized Version with seventy percent of its words translated from the Hebrew, Greek and Latin.
Mocking You
New member
I could spend hours giving examples which you would reject, so what's the point? I guess I would start out with Acts 12:4 where the KJV translates Passover as "Easter".
That the NIV is better.
Yes, they are of the devil because "scholars" like Jack Chick and a charlatan like Gail Riplinger say so.
Bingo! Indeed... I embrace the notion of Paschal/Passover. NIV gets the point! This is a significant disparity. You're a man after my own heart... a dude with the spiritual fortitudes to toss a little steak on the barbie! (I'm not a fag... even though Nazaroo would probably argue the point, LOL!)
So far... Matthew 1:5 KJV v. Matthew 1:5 NIV... the KJV takes the lead that a harlot turning tricks in the back of Victoria's Secrets at mall of Jericho was not in the lineage of Jesus. The NIV, among numerous translations, casts a shadow on the 'name' of Jesus, his ancestry.
Also, Genesis 9:23 KJV v. Genesis 9:23 NIV... the KJV takes the lead considering Leviticus 18:8 KJV, Leviticus 20:11 KJV, Deuteronomy 22:30 KJV, and Deuteronomy 27:20 KJV. These verses shine a light in Noah's tent, while the NIV leaves folk in the dark suggesting Ham might have been a gay voyeur.
Furthermore, Genesis 4:23 KJV v. Genesis 4:23 NIV leaves the door open to meditate on who Lamech's victim was, who Lamech remorsefully killed (his relatively young, beloved great-grandfather, Cain); while the NIV translators suggest Lamech was somehow defending himself from an unknown aggressor, with an unknown agenda, and possibly two aggressor/victims.
Granted, many Christians are deluded into following the pagan celebration of Easter, me too for many years. Few have a clue about the event in Noah's tent regardless of translation, most deny the 'name' of Jesus thrusting a harlot in his ancestry, also regardless of translation. Who Lamech killed might be better discussed in a classroom, but I do toss out the notion there is no evidence Cain was ever punished for the premeditated murder of Abel. Seth lived 912 years and died before the flood (Genesis 5:8 KJV)... so, something ain't right 'chyall!
I prefer the KJV. But, if you have some other disparities of significance... toss 'em out! You're on target bringing up Easter v. Passover, great point, impeccable timing in fact! My faith is quite strong enough to appreciate your post. Finally... someone's in the kitchen! Maybe this thread will get us closer to the truth, now. I'm listening, Mock!
kayaker
Mocking You
New member
I've been collecting them over the years. I've got a KJV/NIV parallel Bible so I find a lot of them. I've got a list in a document on my PC that will keep us busy for days but I'm not near my PC right now.
Here's some from memory:
Deuteronomy 8:9 KJV
A land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, thou shalt not lack any thing in it; a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass.
Deuteronomy 8:9 NIV
a land where bread will not be scarce and you will lack nothing; a land where the rocks are iron and you can dig copper out of the hills.
Note: Brass is a man-made alloy consisting of copper and zinc. You can't dig brass out of the ground!
Ecclesiastes 11:1 KJV
Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.
Care to tell me exactly what this verse is saying, without consulting a commentary or a different translation?
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Don't get me wrong, as I'm not of a King James only cult, happen to prefer it to other Bibles and trust it, but don't find the general conversation meaningful, personally.
That said, this merely a point of order, and also that I sometimes feel like being obnoxious, just like everybody else here. Again, not seeking to burn as a witch anybody caught with an RSV, but why couldn't they have dug brass, to clarify,
A native metal is any metal that is found in its metallic form, either pure or as an alloy, in nature. Metals that can be found as native deposits singly and/or in alloys include aluminium, antimony, arsenic, bismuth, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, indium, iron, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, rhenium, selenium, tantalum, tellurium, tin, titanium, tungsten, and zinc, as well as two groups of metals: the gold group, and the platinum group. The gold group consists of gold, copper, lead, aluminium, mercury, and silver. The platinum group consists of platinum, iridium, osmium, palladium, rhodium, and ruthenium. Amongst the alloys found in native state have been brass, bronze, pewter, German silver, electrum, white gold, and silver-mercury and gold-mercury amalgam.
So, put that in your pipe and smelt it. In addition, if one saw something like, "In due season, you will harvest your wine," this could easily be a way of referring to harvesting grapes, with a rhetorical flair, sort of like that, if somebody doesn't get a joke, it's not the joke, rather one not understanding the humor the problem, not making a connection.
(The Hebrew word is considered pretty brassy.)
An afterthought, though no less important, why could God have not put a massive deposit of brass in them thar' hills, anyway? When do we get off this notion the workings of Almighty God, the Creator, have to conform to natural science? So many people, everywhere and all the time, seem to have the notion of a God who creates everything in the universe, Who afterward must answer to Darwin and the school board as to His methodologies. After all, we now have flush toilets, therefore know better?
Last edited:
Daniel1611
New member
The KJV translates "pascha" as "Easter" in this verse because "Passover" is not correct.
The KJV basically says that Herod captured Peter after the Jews' Passover (Then were the days of unleavened bread) and held him until after Herod's own pagan Easter.
The NIV basically says that Herod captured Peter after Passover (then were the days of unleavened bread) and held him until after Passover. What?
Mocking You
New member
Yes, "native" alloys are usually the result of being forged in a volcano. It might be useful to look at the original Hebrew word. Anyway, no translation in the past 100+ years translates it as brass.
What is the boundary for using this argument? It can be used to explain anything. If God wanted to make the dark side of the moon out of cheese who am I to say it isn't? He could do it, you know!
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Well, no boundary, to my mind. And yes, if I were a Christian astronaut, on a mission to the dark side of the moon, and the Bible said it was made of cheese, I'd bring some hamburger and a space grill, as well as some bread (that had not been previously cast on to water), and have cheeseburgers, sure that I wouldn't have to bring any cheese and not finding the question relevant where there would have been the cows to make cheese. He's more than a God of science. He's a God of miracles, all things possible to Him, Creator and Master of matter, space and time. If there's something I don't understand, it's because I'm ignorant or stupid, a malady unknown to God. If you can get past Genesis 1:1, mining brass is nothing. Where did the manna come from in the wilderness? The wine at the wedding? What's some brass?
Mocking You
New member
Passover is not correct, huh? No translation since the KJV uses Easter here, all use Passover.
But let's say in this one and only instance the word "pascha" does not mean Passover. Isn't it irresponsible for the KJV translators to use the word "Easter" here knowing that any reader would assume they mean the Easter of Christians and not "Herod's Easter"? Or, why not just say "Herod's Easter" if that's what they meant?
So, when is Ishtar ("Herod's Easter") celebrated?
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Also found this mystifying, since when Pascha isn't of Passover, whether the sacrifice or the feast, and why the context isn't that Herod didn't wish to desecrate the Jewish Passover with some more murder, though he got a high off killing James. Also, what was Herod ever known to be devout over, than himself? Would he have let the calendar get in the way of something politically expedient? Cheese on the dark side of the moon makes more sense, to me. Something else, Easter is very ancient, and the earliest Christians would have celebrated the resurrection of our Lord Jesus, which coincides with the Passover time frame, for whatever that's worth. Still, that word Pascha is Passover, all about Passover.
The Hebrew for brass is translated brass 103 times in the KJV, only 1 time copper, also for what that's worth.