Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You can fix the quote now but all it is is a quote of me saying the same exact thing I have always said:
Men either believe the gospel or they do not. It has nothing to do with choosing.
Theology Club: Is the Future Open?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
You can fix the quote now but all it is is a quote of me saying the same exact thing I have always said:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I am waiting for you to bring it. You say that men enter the world in a state of total depravity but when given an opportunity to back up your assertion with facts from the Bible you provide nothing.
Where I grew up in west Texas we call people like you "all hat and no ranch."
Oh well, you are still young and have plenty of time to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Saved.One.by.Grace
New member
You persist in trying to paint Calvinists as Fatalists. How sad you don't believe the Bible.
<DIR>Matthew 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." [NASB]
</DIR>4:17 From then on Jesus took up the message which John had preached: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." It was a further call for moral renewal in preparation for His kingdom. The kingdom was near in the sense that the King was present. [From the Believer's Bible Commentary]
Nothing in here supports the open view except in your own mind. :cheers:
Well that's not the number one goal. We as believers will simply have disagreements with one another and nothing will change that fact.
If we focus on trying to force others to see what we see we err. Our number one goal as believers is to strive for the unity of the body in the bonds of peace and humility.
Good luck
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This forum provides a good opportunity for others to know both sides of any argument and to come to their own conclusions based on the Scriptual evidence presented.
And that leads to growth in the believer. These forums are not the best place to strive for the unity of the Spirit and sometimes the discussions can get heated.
All I can say is, "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen."
So far the only heat has been
View attachment 18625
And I've got them on ignore so that I don't get tempted to retaliate against their flesh.
Even between you and I there has been opportunities to mis our mark of Christlike behavior. It's usually caused by getting disgusted by each other. Haha
I try and imagine being together in person and realizing that I would never act like i do here if we went to the same church together. It just can't be done. There are many bone headed individuals like you at my church but I can't get down and dirty arguing with them in person like I can here. I need you jerry. Don't leave me.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You don't need me--you've got Arnold!
I actually argued with him years ago about the Law. I have it on an old audiotape. It's kind of funny.
Are you claiming it says just the opposite?
Fill us in. What exactly is written on the subject?
"Why did I not die at birth, Come forth from the womb and expire? "Why did the knees receive me, And why the breasts, that I should suck? "For now I would have lain down and been quiet; I would have slept then, I would have been at rest, (Job 3:11-13 NASB)
Is this what happens to babies or is it Job's guess? I don't know.
But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." (2 Samuel 12:23 NASB)
Same question in my mind here.
I hope that these passages mean that God saves every child at death but this is all I have. I'd like to hear what you believe and how you support your belief.
There are two great imputations in the world, the imputation of Adam's sin to everyone and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ to those who believe on Him. This is why I can't see that babies would receive the second imputation without believing. Unless there is some kind of special pardon for them but I haven't seen anything concerning the death of infants besides these two passages. Both men are greater believers than you or I could ever hope to be and both believed that hades was not the destination for infants who die according to their statements. I don't know.
Saved.One.by.Grace
New member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Where in the Scriptures do we read that?
And with what the Lord Jesus says about little children I find it impossible to believe that infants receive the imputation of Adam's sin:
"Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14).
I remember reading something from Arnold considering that passage to do with the angels who watch over His elect.
Then why pretend you do?
Yet you were giving Jerry a hard time over something you admit you don't know the answer to.
Saved.One.by.Grace
New member
Jesus says He is the alpha and omega. This means first and last. Last means an ending. We who are His brethren, will someday see His return fulfilling prophecy.