Is Perspecuity Necessary for Sola Scriptura?

iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
No need for ordination eh? Is there chaos within the church? All should be done in an orderly manner. :duh:
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All are commanded to go and preach the Gospel.

Show me how any were "ordained" in NT times.

The best you get is laying on of hands by the majority.
And even that seems optional and occasional.
The onus is on you to prove there is such a thing as "the ordained".
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
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iouae said:
All are commanded to go and preach the Gospel.

Show me how any were "ordained" in NT times.

The best you get is laying on of hands by the majority.
And even that seems optional and occasional.
The onus is on you to prove there is such a thing as "the ordained".
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You get separation of offices in body. Get real.

Ephesians 4:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
 
brewmama

brewmama

New member
iouae said:
Whoever said the above highlighted, had no clue.

There are NO sacraments among true believers.

EVERY SINGLE Christian can baptise, administer communion, marry, pray for the sick etc.

Show me a scripture saying only a select few can administer sacraments?

Show me a scripture that there ARE sacraments.
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Wow. How sad. I'll give you a few.

Mt 28 17-19 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8 14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.


1 Corinthians 11:24-27English Standard Version (ESV)
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for[a] you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.

Matthew 16:19

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained. (NASB) John 20:21-23

James 5:14-15New International Version (NIV)

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

Luke ch 24
Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them what referred to him in all the scriptures.

As they approached the village to which they were going, he gave the impression that he was going on farther.

But they urged him, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening and the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.

With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he vanished from their sight.

Then they said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning [within us] while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?”

So they set out at once and returned to Jerusalem where they found gathered together the eleven and those with them

who were saying, “The Lord has truly been raised and has appeared to Simon!”

Then the two recounted what had taken place on the way and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread.

They DID NOT recognize Him when they were discussing Scripture with Him.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
iouae said:
My experience is quite the opposite.I have virtually never found a clear scripture that someone does not have an alternate explanation for.Be that as it may...I have less faith in my cult leader getting things right than I have in myself with the help of the Holy Spirit and my online Hebrew-Greek translation getting it right.And I will add this...Even with the Holy Spirit filling someone, even they are full of misinterpretations of scripture.We are all somewhere along the learning curve, all perfectly sincere, but not one has full understanding. And thats OK with God. For now we see darkly as through a glass.
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You seem to have missed my reply to you back in Post #16. Perhaps you can answer it now...?
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
brewmama said:
Wow. How sad. I'll give you a few.

Mt 28 17-19 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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Exactly, all were to go baptising.

brewmama said:
Acts 8 14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
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There are no original apostles today.
All now perform that function.

brewmama said:
1 Corinthians 11:24-27English Standard Version (ESV)
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for[a] you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.
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Yes YOU ALL DO THIS not some one ordained one.


brewmama said:
Matthew 16:19

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
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Not this tired argument that that one person takes Peter's place and alone has keys to everlasting life


brewmama said:
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained. (NASB) John 20:21-23
Click to expand...

I totally reject the idea that ANY MAN CAN FORGIVE SIN.
All can go to Christ without an intermediary to have sins forgiven. "forgive us our trespasses as we..."


brewmama said:
James 5:14-15New International Version (NIV)

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.
Click to expand...

Again, all "elders" or those mature in the faith can do this, without exception.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
iouae said:
All are commanded to go and preach the Gospel.

Show me how any were "ordained" in NT times.

The best you get is laying on of hands by the majority.
And even that seems optional and occasional.
The onus is on you to prove there is such a thing as "the ordained".
Click to expand...
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Cruciform said:
The apostles and their successors (the bishops) authoritatively interpreted the OT Scriptures on behalf of the early Christian Church (Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Jn. 4:6). Were the apostles, then, "cult leaders"? :think:
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The 12 original Apostles were a one-off special case, and for this reason they are promised one-off special rewards of sitting and judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

They HAD authority, but even then not the kind churches think of that only SOME are ordained to certain tasks.

Ordaining and sacraments is a man-made way to control others. It suppressed the truth.
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Again I assert that there is not a single church function that ALL cannot equally perform.

Sure there are gifts. Some are lousy teachers and they should look for what they are better at.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
iouae said:
The 12 original Apostles were a one-off special case, and for this reason they are promised one-off special rewards of sitting and judging the 12 tribes of Israel. They HAD authority, but even then not the kind churches think of that only SOME are ordained to certain tasks. Ordaining and sacraments is a man-made way to control others. It suppressed the truth.
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Categorically refuted in Post #74 above.
 
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