Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Adam was created in the image of God and yet he sinned.
Are you going to deny that when Adam was created that he was alive spiritually?
ECT Is "Original sin" Seen by Others as Intrinsic Potential or latent in Creation as Evil
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Adam was created in the image of God and yet he sinned.
Are you going to deny that when Adam was created that he was alive spiritually?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal.5:17).
From the context we can see that Paul is speaking about a Christian's walk:
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Gal.5:16).
When Paul contrasts walking in the Spirit with walking in the flesh he is speaking of living a God-centered life as opposed to living a self-centered life.
The following verse also speaks of the Christian's walk:
"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God" (Ro.8:8).
A Christian can either walk after the Spirit or after the flesh:
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Ro.8:4).
When Paul contrasts walking in the flesh with walking after the spirit he is speaking about being self-centered as opposed to being God-centered. Paul speaks about that same principle here:
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit" (Ro.8:5).
We can also understand that it is indeed possible for a Christian to walk or live after the flesh because Paul tells Christians that if they live after the flesh they shall die:
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Ro.8:13).
If it is impossible that a Christian can walk after the flesh then it would make absolutely no sense for Paul to tell Christians that "if they live after the flesh you shall die."
The "death" spoken of here is in regard to the Christian's walk, that "we should also walk in newness of life" (Ro.6:4) so that "the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11). The second part of verse 13 is telling Christians that if they mortify the deeds of the body they will live. Christians are already received eternal life so Paul's words there are also referring to walking in newness of life.
From all of this we can understand that Christians can indeed walk in the flesh and when they live or walk that way they cannot please God. The Apostle John refers to that kind of walk as walking in darkness:
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 Jn.1:5-6).
GeoffW
New member
Well since you have yet to define accurately what you mean by "spiritually alive" I am at a loss to understand what it would represent.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Adam had no knowledge of good and evil.
Adam "died".
Adam was banished from the garden so that he eat not of the tree of life.
None of the above even seem remotely possible to me for a man who is the image of God and is, as you define "spiritually alive".
Maybe I'm just thick but it seems to me that the tree of life was freely available to this man who was as you say, "spiritually alive".
Of what value was this supposed "spiritual life" to Adam if he failed to notice that and how did it differ to what Jesus described as life?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Did Adam lose what Jesus had? I just can't get a grip on what this "spiritual life" that you speak of is.
Geoff.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Tell me how it is possible that anyone can be made alive together with the Lord Jesus but not have spiritual life?:
"even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" (Eph.2:5).
Please tell me how anyone can be born of the Spirit and not have spiritual life?:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (Jn.3:6).
According to you a person who is born of the spirit is spirit but he doesn't have spiritual life!
Since God is Spirit and Adam was created in the image of God I can only believe that he was created spiritually alive.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Dipshit.
The spirit of God intervenes and has communion with our spirit.
Now call a mod.
GeoffW
New member
Scripture doesn't mention this term "spiritually alive". It's empty of meaning as far as I'm concerned. Your argument should be with those who wrote according to what they were shown by the spirit, not me.
Sorry Jerry, I can't see the point of continuing. There seems little point in rehashing what's already been said.
Geoff.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Scriptures do not mention the word "Trinity" either!
The meaning which you gave for being dead while a person remains alive physically makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, it is laughable but you must cling to that idea so you won't have to face the truth that I have seen and thousands of others have also seen, that the death is a spiritual death.
You can't even understand that when a person is made alive together with Christ and born of the Spirit that at that moment he has spiritual life--"that what is born of the Spirit is spirit."
You can't even understand that prior to being made alive by the Spirit that a person does not have spiritual life.
Besides that, we read that when a person receives the Spirit which is of God that person is able to understand things which were previously above his understanding (1 Cor.2:9-12). From your responses I can see no evidence that you understand what the Holy Spirit teaches, to compare "spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Cor.2:13).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What a fine Christian gentleman you are.
I know, you have a good excuse, that your body over-ruled your brain and those words just came pouring out.
The devil made you do it!
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
A Baptist preacher once ask God to take the devil outta me.
Must notta had God's ear I reckon.
GeoffW
New member
Good point! Like "spiritually alive", it's nonsense; a very good reason for scripture never to mention it!
Not one of those thousands of people laughing along with you can make themselves alive by choosing the good and rejecting the evil. That sounds like death to me.
Laugh as loud and long at my expense if you feel it helps.
I am prepared to offer all that I have written on this subject in our conversation here on this forum as evidence that you are manipulating the truth of my position for your own end, whatever that may be.
And you believe that a person made alive by this spirit can die.
"You can see no evidence"? I'm not surprised!
Geoff.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Tell us again in what way the following people were "alive" before their "death" spoken of here:
"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses" (Col.2:13).
Yo, Neo-Jerry, the phrase "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" is not referring to comparing Scripture with Scripture.
He is talking about suiting his words to their rightful imagery towards his rightly communicating the things of God (that God revealed to his mind through His Words and their accompanying Imagery) to his audience.
"Comparing" is a compound word comprised of com, or with, and, pair, or together - to fit two things together into one.
Which is also how its other meaning is derived - to pair two or more things together so as to be able observe their similarities and differences.
So much for your other error - your assertion that the other passage there, in 1 Cor. 2 is asserting that only saved people can understand the Scripture.
For he follows that in chapter 2 with "for I could NOT speak unto you (saved people at Corinth) as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal..."
You are one error prone Neo-Dispy, Neo-Jerry, that's for sure.
:chuckle:
Rom. 5: 6-8
He is talking about suiting his words to their rightful imagery towards his rightly communicating the things of God (that God revealed to his mind through His Words and their accompanying Imagery) to his audience.
"Comparing" is a compound word comprised of com, or with, and, pair, or together - to fit two things together into one.
Which is also how its other meaning is derived - to pair two or more things together so as to be able observe their similarities and differences.
So much for your other error - your assertion that the other passage there, in 1 Cor. 2 is asserting that only saved people can understand the Scripture.
For he follows that in chapter 2 with "for I could NOT speak unto you (saved people at Corinth) as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal..."
You are one error prone Neo-Dispy, Neo-Jerry, that's for sure.
:chuckle:
Rom. 5: 6-8
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The unbeliever is described here and it is obvious that he cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).