Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS wrote: I simply stated what the Bible teaches, that men are saved by receiving His life, not because He died for them.

OZOs doen't understand that the penalty for sin must be paid, either by the sinner or by the Lord Jesus:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Ro.6:23).

the gospel states that "Christ died for our sins:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;" (1 Cor.15:1-3).

OZOS doesn't understand that Christ died on behalf of all people but only those who believe receive the benefits of that death. Then he denies the most basic teaching of the Christian revelation.

He should banned for trying to belittle the imporatance of the death of the Lord Jesus.

 

[OZOS]

OZOS wrote: I simply stated what the Bible teaches, that men are saved by receiving His life, not because He died for them.

OZOs doen't understand that the penalty for sin must be paid, either by the sinner or by the Lord Jesus:

I understand it perfectly, you slandering child of Satan.

I have repeatedly affirmed in all of our interaction that Jesus had to die for all sin of all men. The cross is absolutely essential to the gospel message, for if Christ had not died for our sins, no man could be saved, but no man is saved by His death, for if He had not been raised they would still be in their sins.

You are a complete and utter fool, and a liar. You go straight to hell, you phony pile of crap.

He should banned for trying to belittle the importance of the death of the Lord Jesus.

Those who run and monitor this site know full well, that I never did any such thing, but they also know that you are lying about it, and they still won't ban you.


For you to claim that men are saved by His death and not by His life dwelling in them, makes you an anti-Christ pervert.
You will go to hell, and I hope it's soon.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS, you said:

"I have repeatedly affirmed in all of our interaction that Jesus had to die for all sin of all men."

Are you saying that the Lord Jesus'death upon the cross paid the penalty for the sins of all people?:

"For the wages of sin is death" (Ro.6:23).

 

[OZOS]

OZOS, you said:

"I have repeatedly affirmed in all of our interaction that Jesus had to die for all sin of all men."

Are you saying that the Lord Jesus'death upon the cross paid the penalty for the sins of all people?:

"For the wages of sin is death" (Ro.6:23).

Are you saying that Jesus death did not pay for the sins of all people?

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

"But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God"

The wages of sin is death.
Jesus died.

Do the math.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS asked, "Are you saying that Jesus death did not pay for the sins of all people"

If his death paid the penalty for all me then no one can go to hell fot the sins they commit because the penalty for their sins has already been paid.

Let us look at the following two verses, one which speaks of the Lord Jesus giving Himself as a ransom for "many" and the other speaks of giving Himself as a ransom for "all"::

"the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for (anti) many" (Mt.20:28).

"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for (hyper) all, to be testified in due time" (1 Tim.2:5-6).

In Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words we read the following:

"Of special doctrinal importance are Mat 20:28; Mar 10:45, 'to give His life a ransom (lutron) for (anti) many.' Here the substitutionary significance, 'instead of,' is clear, as also with the compound antilutron in 1Ti 2:6, 'who gave Himself a ransom (antitutron) for (huper) all'; here the use of huper, "on behalf of," is noticeable."

So we can understand that the Lord Jesus gave His life as a ransom on the behalf of all people. And that matches what we read here:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for (hyper) everyone" (Heb.2:9).

In other words, the Lord Jesus tasted death on the behalf of everyone but not in the place of everyone.. That explains the following translation of Hebrews 2:9:
"Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, but we see him crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death. Through God's kindness he died on behalf of everyone" (Heb.2:9; God's Word Translation).

On the other hand, the Greek word anti found in the following verse means "for, instead of, in place of (something)."

"the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for (anti) many" (Mt.20:28).

In other words, the Lord Jesus gave His life "in the place of" or "instead of" many--but not for all. As Vine's says, "Here the substitutionary significance, 'instead of,' is clear." The Lord Jesus' death was vicarious, that is, in the place of others.

 

[OZOS]

If his death paid the penalty for all me then no one can go to hell fot the sins they commit because the penalty for their sins has already been paid.

That all anyone needs to know from you to verify that you have never believed the gospel, are outside the faith, and will hear Jesus say "I never knew you".


Men (you) go to hell for not believing the gospel. Jesus died for all sins of all men. It is finished. You just admitted that you don't believe that.

Case closed.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOs wrote: "Men (you) go to hell for not believing the gospel. Jesus died for all sins of all men. It is finished. You just admitted that you don't believe that."

I say that the Lord Jesus died on behalf of all men. Do you assert that the lord Jesus died in the place of all men?

 

[OZOS]

OZOs wrote: "Men (you) go to hell for not believing the gospel. Jesus died for all sins of all men. It is finished. You just admitted that you don't believe that."

I say that the Lord Jesus died on behalf of all men. Do you assert that the lord Jesus died in the place of all men?

"For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again."

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why do you just IGNORE the meanings I gave for the Greek words translated "for"?

You must think that the Greek experts are wrong!

 

[OZOS]

Why do you just IGNORE the meanings I gave for the Greek words translated "for"?

You must think that the Greek experts are wrong!

All I did was quote the verses, you dimwit.

You just look FOR people to argue with.

Go to hell, you Christ hating pervert.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You cannot even understand that the different Greek words translated "for'" have different meanings.

You don't want to know the truth and you don't want others to know the truth.

When you get cornered all you do is to call others names. childish behavior.

 

[OZOS]

When you get cornered all you do is to call others names. childish behavior.

I call you names, for the same reason Jesus and Paul called the children of the devil names.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Threre you go again comparing yourself to the Lord Jesus Christ!

He never sinned and you brag that you sin no more.

 

[OZOS]

Threre you go again comparing yourself to the Lord Jesus Christ!

He never sinned and you brag that you sin no more.

No, I boast in the Lord and His word. While you claim that those born of God "do sin", when God's word says exactly the opposite.

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 5:18

"Those who are born of God DO sin" - Jerry Shugart

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

"Those who are born of God DO sin" - Jerry Shugart

"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6

"No, those who know Him DO sin"

"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

"He who sins is of God" - Jerry Shugart

Proof positive that you serve the devil.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS said: "I boast in the Lord and His word."

You prove over and over that you do not believe his words. you say that no one receives life until sometime after the cross. But you deny what the Lord jesus said here because you hate His teaching:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).

The Greek words translated "believeth" and "hath" are in the present tense which means that when the Lord Jesus walked the earth those who were believing had everlasting life right then and there. The Lord Jesus also said that those believing at that time are "passed from death unto life."

But OZOS denies those words of the Savior and is doing his best to lead those on this forum astray. He says that he boasts in the Lord and his word but nothing could be further from the truth.

Paul describes OZOS here:

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.11:14-15).

 

[OZOS]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).

This is a promise of what will happen to those who believe.

Once again, because you only know a few verses from the entire Bible and reject those that prove you wrong, you are not only deceived, but willfully deceiving others. You are a demon from hell.

Jesus has to die and be raised in order for men to have eternal life. This has been proven to you over and over again, but you continue to pervert God's word, because of the anti-Christ cult that you are in.

FACT #1 Only those who are indwelt BY the Holy Spirit have eternal life, a fact you deny, and the Lord Jesus said as well as the Apostle Paul.

FACT #2 The Holy Spirit does not and cannot dwell in believers UNTIL Jesus has been raised from the dead.

FACT#3 It is the Holy Spirit that gives life. Believers receive eternal life when they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

FACT #4 Only those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit are one spirit with Him.

FACT #5 Forgiveness of sins is in Christ, in His life. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

FACT #6 Jesus had to die and be raised from the dead so that men can believe the gospel in order to receive eternal life.

FACT #7 NO ONE (other than Jesus) had eternal life until AFTER Jesus died and was raised.

FACT #8 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

FACT #9 To "know" God is to become one spirit with Him. You cannot "know" God, unless you have been born of God, and no one is born of God unless they have been born of the Spirit, which did not come until Jesus was raised.

FACT #10 You cannot pass from death to life apart from being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

FACT #11 Many believed in Jesus BEFORE the Holy Spirit was sent to dwell in believers. But they did not receive His life, UNTIL they received the Holy Spirit.

FACT #12 NO ONE received eternal life until AFTER Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS wrote:

"FACT #12 NO ONE received eternal life until AFTER Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.'

If we believe the words of the lord Jesus (which you don't) we can see that people were receiving eternallife at the time he walked the earth:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (jn.5;24).

The Greek words translated "believes" and "has" are in the present tense which means that when the Lord Jesus walked the earth those who were believing had everlasting life right then and there. The Lord Jesus also said that those believing at that time are "crossed from death unto life."

According to the Lord Jesus believers were receiving eternal life while he still walked the earth. But OZOS would rather make the Lord Jesus a liar than to admit that he is wrong.

 

[OZOS]

OZOS wrote:

"FACT #12 NO ONE received eternal life until AFTER Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.'

If we believe the words of the lord Jesus (which you don't) we can see that people were receiving eternallife at the time he walked the earth:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (jn.5;24).

You're an idiot, which is why you choose to ignore the entire Bible. You cannot create a doctrine from one verse, you pervert.

To have eternal life, you must have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. The Holy Spirit is not dwelling in you, which is why you deny and blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

Just as the verse you quoted affirms what happens when someone believes, so does this verse, but Jesus elaborates here, and not in your verse. I'm sure Jesus thinks your an idiot for thinking that He had to add "But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." every time He said "He who believes in Me".

Thankfully, Jesus made it easy, for false teachers, like you, to be exposed.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Perhaps John 5:24 is not in OZOS' Bible? Or perhaps he tore out the page where that verse is found?

i have alreaddy addressed the words "the Holy Spirit was not yet given.

But he refuses to address the lord Jesus'words at John 5;24. All he does is to offer a mis-translation which He thinks proves that what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 is not true.

 

[OZOS]

Perhaps John 5:24 is not in OZOS' Bible? Or perhaps he tore out the page where that verse is found?

i have alreaddy addressed the words "the Holy Spirit was not yet given.

But he refuses to address the lord Jesus'words at John 5;24. All he does is to offer a mis-translation which He thinks proves that what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 is not true.

The KJV, NKJV, NASB, YLT, etc, are not "mis-translations". It's just that you are a pervert, have always been a pervert, and will die a pervert, but not soon enough for the others to have to keep listening to your anti-Christ crap.

NO ONE has eternal life until AFTER Jesus dies on the cross, is raised from the dead and the Holy Spirit is given to dwell in those who believe or have believed. Your cultish views carry no truth. John 5:24 is a promise concerning those who believe. I've shared other similar verses that confirm this, but you hate the Bible, hate Jesus, and hate the gospel. Go to hell, I don't really care.