Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

[Bright Raven]

I said

1 Cor 7:4
4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
(NKJ)

? Now explain what you mean in plain English.

 

[genuineoriginal]

This thread was posted to allow other Christians to counter what sod, Crucible and genuineoriginal insisted, which was that there's no such thing as spousal rape in a 'Christian' marriage.

The thread was posted because you have some strange desire to redefine the words Christian, marriage, and rape.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”

Humpty Dumpty was a Progressive Liberal, just like you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Rape is rape.

According to the law of Moses, it was a capital crime.

According to the Law of God given through Moses, a man raping someone else's wife is committing a capital crime and was to be put to death.
A man that raped an unmarried woman was to become her husband for the rest of his life.

Deuteronomy 22:25-29 25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.​

Nothing in the Law of God given through Moses allows the definition of rape to include sex between a man and his own wife.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

According to the Law of God given through Moses, a man raping someone else's wife is committing a capital crime and was to be put to death.
A man that raped an unmarried woman was to become her husband for the rest of his life.

Deuteronomy 22:25-29 25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.​

Nothing in the Law of God given through Moses allows the definition of rape to include sex between a man and his own wife.

Genuineoriginal,

In marriage, respect is central to success. Some people are excited at the idea of being grabbed up and taken, while others need to have the right to express their sexual comfort levels. If a man or woman aren't sexually available at a particular moment, their wishes should be honored through discussion and respect. Compromise is central to marital success and both parties of the marriage are continually practicing it without even knowing they are doing so, sometimes.

Any perceived biblical right to force oneself on a spouse is removed from the equation when a close reading of husbands being willing to lay their life down for their wives and wives holding themselves in submission to their husbands. The verbiage is clear and asks both parties of a marriage to selflessly respect one another and simultaneously encourage growth and positive outcome in all manners.

And to Anna...

So, genuineoriginal, if you held your wife down and forced yourself on her, you believe you would not be raping her.

YES or NO?

Any other 'Christian' men agree with genuineoriginal and Crucible?

Rape is wrong. Crucible and any man or woman who endorses rape are wrong. However, this should be common knowledge.

Shove off, animal.

Rape is rape. It's never okay. However, there is equal inequality in differing ways among men and women in today's society.

Men and women that experience abuse of a sexual nature in any form of relationship or simple attack should have the support to work through their issue and access whatever means necessary to prevent a reoccurrence. A gun for instance, genuine therapy or spiritual support and education how to utilize any of the like.

On the other side of the coin...

It must be Understood that although this is a central point... Masculine and Feminie roles are crucial to healthy human development. This is even known and discussed in psychology that seeks to address human behavior, as honestly as possible.

I bring this up because there are men and women fixated on rape to the point that they believe that the US is a rape culture. This is a false ideology that is propegated by the negative use of this discussion that is used to assault the Bible, God and the very foundation of culture itself.

A good way to identify a man or woman's purpose for discussing this important talking point is the evaluation of this video.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Genuineoriginal,

In marriage, respect is central to success. Some people are excited at the idea of being grabbed up and taken, while others need to have the right to express their sexual comfort levels. If a man or woman aren't sexually available at a particular moment, their wishes should be honored through discussion and respect. Compromise is central to marital success and both parties of the marriage are continually practicing it without even knowing they are doing so, sometimes.

The Bible goes even further than you suggest:

Ephesians 5:25-28 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.​

The argument that ok doser gave is that a husband that does not love his wife in this manner is not in a "Christian" marriage, but is living like a non-Christian.
annabenedetti took ok doser's argument to mean that all "Christian" men rape their wives.

Any perceived biblical right to force oneself on a spouse is removed from the equation when a close reading of husbands being willing to lay their life down for their wives and wives holding themselves in submission to their husbands. The verbiage is clear and asks both parties of a marriage to selflessly respect one another and simultaneously encourage growth and positive outcome in all manners.

The title of this thread is, "Is marital rape scripturally defensible?"
My entire argument in this thread is that the Bible neither praises nor condemns "marital rape".
The Bible is silent about "marital rape" because there was no such concept during Biblical times.
You can no more justify or condemn "marital rape" using the Bible than you can justify or condemn abortion using the Bible.

Historically, marriage implied an irrevocable consent to sexual intercourse by each spouse.
Laws about rape specifically stated that rape was intercourse "with a male or female who is not the spouse of the perpetrator."
The concept of "marital rape" did not exist until very recently.

The feminist movement of the 19th century introduced the concept of "marital rape" as a way to give legal authority to the practice of women controlling husbands by withholding sexual intercourse.
In 1979 the first "marital rape" law went into effect, changing the historical definition of rape in a way that would severely weaken the institution of marriage.

This was one of the early steps towards the current "rape culture" created by feminists.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The Bible goes even further than you suggest:

Ephesians 5:25-28 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.​

The argument that ok doser gave is that a husband that does not love his wife in this manner is not in a "Christian" marriage, but is living like a non-Christian.
annabenedetti took ok doser's argument to mean that all "Christian" men rape their wives.


The title of this thread is, "Is marital rape scripturally defensible?"
My entire argument in this thread is that the Bible neither praises nor condemns "marital rape".
The Bible is silent about "marital rape" because there was no such concept during Biblical times.
You can no more justify or condemn "marital rape" using the Bible than you can justify or condemn abortion using the Bible.

Historically, marriage implied an irrevocable consent to sexual intercourse by each spouse.
Laws about rape specifically stated that rape was intercourse "with a male or female who is not the spouse of the perpetrator."
The concept of "marital rape" did not exist until very recently.

The feminist movement of the 19th century introduced the concept of "marital rape" as a way to give legal authority to the practice of women controlling husbands by withholding sexual intercourse.
In 1979 the first "marital rape" law went into effect, changing the historical definition of rape in a way that would severely weaken the institution of marriage.

This was one of the early steps towards the current "rape culture" created by feminists.

Well defended. :e4e:

It almost seems the title of the OP could be rigged in a sort of way. As in, no right answer can actually be given in sincere context of all provided data, within the OP, that is guised under the label marital rape.

Your point is well noted and equally well defended. Your intentions are clearly positive.

I'm certain you noticed the YouTube link I posted in response to Anna.

The other side of the coin is that the denial of affection from either the man or woman in a marriage can have abusive effects as well. Thus, your ballenced response here has wonderful implications.

:thumb:

 

[Squeaky]

? Now explain what you mean in plain English.

I said
lol Are you kidding me? Something as simple and point blank as that. You need it explained.
[1Co 7:5
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Well defended. :e4e:

It almost seems the title of the OP could be rigged in a sort of way. As in, no right answer can actually be given in sincere context of all provided data, within the OP, that is guised under the label marital rape.

Your point is well noted and equally well defended. Your intentions are clearly positive.

I'm certain you noticed the YouTube link I posted in response to Anna.

The other side of the coin is that the denial of affection from either the man or woman in a marriage can have abusive effects as well. Thus, your ballenced response here has wonderful implications.

:thumb:

Thank you for the YouTube link.
I have only recently become aware of the "Red Pill" movement.

Quite a few of the other posters in this thread have argued that "the denial of affection from either the man or woman in a marriage" is not something a Christian would do.
The scriptural support for that argument is clear:

1 Corinthians 7:5 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.​

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I said
lol Are you kidding me? Something as simple and point blank as that. You need it explained.
[1Co 7:5
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Squeaks... [MENTION=4465]Bright Raven[/MENTION] is correct to address your misuse of the verse. It takes wisdom and exegesis to quote the biblical support of the OP. You must Rightly divide with your answer. Rape is rape.

There are multiple facets to this discussion and Christians respect sexual need and sexual withdrawal in marriage. It's part of the give and take thing.

Guns blazing ain't the way to approach this thread.

Allow me to be clear... answering a rape victim is different than answering someone who hasn't been raped and let me make this clear... men and women get raped by men or women... and you never know what a person you are answering has been through.

Follow?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Squeaks... [MENTION=8316]Bright[/MENTION]Raven is correct to address your misuse of the verse. It takes wisdom and exegesis to quote the biblical support of the OP. You must Rightly divide with your answer. Rape is rape.

There are multiple fascists to this discussion and Christians respect sexual need and sexual withdrawal in marriage. It's part of the give and take thing.

Gens blazing ain't the way to approach this thread.

It is amazing how many people behave like "fascists" about this topic.
There are also multiple facets (sic) as well.

Did you mean "Guns blazing"?
The term "Gens blazing" made me think you were referring to my posts.

Edit: Oh good, I see you fixed that.:chuckle:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

It is amazing how many people behave like "fascists" about this topic.
There are also multiple facets (sic) as well.

Did you mean "Guns blazing"?
The term "Gens blazing" made me think you were referring to my posts.

Edit: Oh good, I see you fixed that.:chuckle:

Rotfl!!! I just caught the "fascists" error in my spelling, though unintentionally done... it is well placed and immortalized in your excellent quote.

:cheers:

 

[Squeaky]

Squeaks... [MENTION=4465]Bright Raven[/MENTION] is correct to address your misuse of the verse. It takes wisdom and exegesis to quote the biblical support of the OP. You must Rightly divide with your answer. Rape is rape.

There are multiple facets to this discussion and Christians respect sexual need and sexual withdrawal in marriage. It's part of the give and take thing.

Guns blazing ain't the way to approach this thread.

Allow me to be clear... answering a rape victim is different than answering someone who hasn't been raped and let me make this clear... men and women get raped by men or women... and you never know what a person you are answering has been through.

Follow?

I said
Its obvious you don't know the Holy Spirit. And it cant be called rape between two in marriage. Doesn't make any difference to which one done it to the other. They are going to have to forgive them anyway if they ever hope to get to heaven.

[Mat 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I'm thinking you don't understand. Neither can so no unless it is with concent.

[1Co 7:5
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

You sound like one of these sensual people.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I said
Its obvious you don't know the Holy Spirit. And it cant be called rape between two in marriage. Doesn't make any difference to which one done it to the other. They are going to have to forgive them anyway if they ever hope to get to heaven.

[Mat 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I'm thinking you don't understand. Neither can so no unless it is with concent.

[1Co 7:5
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

You sound like one of these sensual people.

Squeaks,

Your neurologist called and said the degeneration is irreparable.

# But you're still "special"

 

[Squeaky]

Squeaks,

Your neurologist called and said the degeneration is irreparable.

# But you're still "special"

I said
ROFLOL Camouflage .

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I said
ROFLOL Camouflage .

 

[patrick jane]

What a sweet little baby !!!

 

[ok doser]

No, youre not, but you are guilty of losing your wallet (you suffer in part because of your choice not to be proactive because if you didnt leave it unattended, you wouldnt be missing it) because there are thieves.

How are others not getting what has been said? Its clear reading where im sitting.

we need angel back


come back angel!

 

[ok doser]

They don't want to get it, Angel. It's part of being one of the entitlement generation. In the same way that people think they are entitled to free health insurance, to a share in the wealth of the rich.....they are entitled to being free from personal responsibility for their own stupid or immoral behavior. As long as there is someone else to blame, someone else to mooch off of, and someone else to pay their way to school, they are content.

Blame the thief for your own stupidity.....lots of finger pointing going on in this world today.

:thumb:

 

[ok doser]

from 2015:

This is so weird. Mosey back into the forum to see what I've been missing and what do I find? This.

Good work humanity.

:darwinsm:

 

[Bright Raven]

Absolutely not. Never.