Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored

[1Mind1Spirit]

The current teaching in churchiantiy about water baptism is just such a "rudiment of the world".

:kookoo:

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Most of churchianity does indeed call the water ceremony an ordinance.

Yuh think?

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

 

[Zeke]

You know that this is not what Jesus was talking about in John 3, right?

That's a wonderful chapter, by the way. It shows so clearly that all of the physical rudiments of the world have no place in the body of Christ.

Look what come right before that verse:

Col 2:6-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: (2:7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. (2:8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (2:10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (2:11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: (2:12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. ​

The circumcision is made without hands and yet you folks want to make water baptism something required.
The baptism there in verse 12 has NO water. That baptism is OUR identification with HIM in HIS death for us.

And after:

Col 2:14-23 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (2:15) [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: (2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. (2:18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (2:19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. (2:20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (2:21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not; (2:22) Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? (2:23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. ​

The current teaching in churchiantiy about water baptism is just such a "rudiment of the world". Most of churchianity does indeed call the water ceremony an ordinance.

But you also want to make the death of Christ literal and physical when it isn't, it takes place in man which is why it is said to take place in the Skull/Calvary/, The temporal body of flesh and blood is the cross you have to take up daily! can't make water not literal then try to make Christ sacrifice literal! double standard/forked tongue.

 

[Crucible]

Let's see how many ways heterodoxy can sabotage Christianity: First, crucifixes and art are idolatry. Then, deny infant baptism. And then, deny communion. And at last, deny water baptism.

Next up: the Sabbath (it's work-based)

 

[patrick jane]

Let's see how many ways heterodoxy can sabotage Christianity: First, crucifixes and art are idolatry. Then, deny infant baptism. And then, deny communion. And at last, deny water baptism.

Next up: the Sabbath (it's work-based)

It's a good thing you are predestined !!

 

[Danoh]

It's a good thing you are predestined !!

:rotfl:

 

[SimpleMan77]

Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored

Let's see how many ways heterodoxy can sabotage Christianity: First, crucifixes and art are idolatry. Then, deny infant baptism. And then, deny communion. And at last, deny water baptism.

Next up: the Sabbath (it's work-based)

The Book of Acts is of utmost importance to Christianity. It shows the way that those who were personally trained by God in the flesh for over 240,000 hours put his instructions into action.
It shows how Paul, who got his instructions straight from God, had a conference with the other Apostles, where their revelations matched up perfectly (as testified by Paul himself later). Paul baptized exactly the same way. He said that in conference they "added nothing to me".
It, along with other teachings of the church, shows adult baptism when people believed with all their hearts. It validates communion.
However, there were never infant baptisms. There were never shrines or prayers made to saints. In fact, the leadership repudiated bowing to anyone but God!


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[Angel4Truth]

infant baptism

Scripture?

 

[Crucible]

Scripture?

Where is the scripture that says only adults are baptized? And what is the difference if you have your twelve year old cousin getting immersed

That's the thing about yall, your belief on the matter is without structure. There is no fluid ideology of what baptism actually is with you, it's just a seamless 'acknowledgement' which gives it about as much importance as a rock.

 

[Angel4Truth]

infant baptism

Scripture?

Where is the scripture that says only adults are baptized?

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvationin whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).

Cant think of a single infant that can do that.

And what is the difference if you have your twelve year old cousin getting immersed

That's the thing about yall, your belief on the matter is without structure. There is no fluid ideology of what baptism actually is with you, it's just a seamless 'acknowledgement' which gives it about as much importance as a rock.

You didnt answer me.

As usual.

 

[Crucible]

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation” (Ephesians 1:13).

Cant think of a single infant that can do that.

Children of Christian parents are not little pagans to be chastised into submission, they are included in the Covenant of Christ and should be baptized. That's where the practice of infant circumcision came from.

You all hinge on legal fictions and presuppositions of scripture is all

 

[Angel4Truth]

Children of Christian parents are not little pagans to be chastised into submission, they are included in the Covenant of Christ and should be baptized. That's where the practice of infant circumcision came from.

You all hinge on legal fictions and presuppositions of scripture is all

Still waiting for scripture on infant baptism, you claim it, so back it.

I backed what i believe.

 

[Crucible]

Still waiting for scripture on infant baptism, you claim it, so back it.

I backed what i believe.

Still waiting for scripture on no infant baptism, you claim it, so back it.

Easy enough :chuckle:

 

[Angel4Truth]

Still waiting for scripture on no infant baptism, you claim it, so back it.

Easy enough :chuckle:

I already posted it, are you so stoned you cant see now?

 

[Crucible]

I already posted it, are you so stoned you cant see now?

That's not relevant to baptism. That's relevant to professing the faith, which only begins at baptism if that's your choosing. Baptism is an ordination into the Christian body, which you separate your own children from and treat as little pagans to be evangelized. Good job.

 

[Angel4Truth]

That's not relevant to baptism. That's relevant to professing the faith, which only begins at baptism if that's your choosing. Baptism is an ordination into the Christian body, which you separate your own children from and treat as little pagans to be evangelized. Good job.

yes, its relevant to baptism. There is only one baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Still waiting for your verse or verses from scripture on a called infant to baptism after they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation.

You talk talk talk, but always lack scripture for all that hot air. There is no reason to believe you, since
you cannot back what you claim.

 

[Crucible]

However, there were never infant baptisms.

Baptism was assumed to be the new circumcision, and was very well practiced in the early church. So much so that it wasn't even ordained by a patriarch, it simply always existed. The early Christians were mostly poor and baptized with buckets and spoons, fearing persecution- what makes you think they were told not to welcome their newborns into the Body :AMR:

Both John Calvin and Martin Luther validated infant baptism and it wasn't contested until the end of the era when Arminius and those dreadful Anabaptists went and ran off with their own ideas.

What you are saying is straight out of pointing to scripture and showing that infant baptism isn't there- that is the going rate for most all arguments against it and all you're adding to it is a ham handed attempt at Acts to validate something that simply isn't there.

 

[Crucible]

yes, its relevant to baptism. There is only one baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Still waiting for your verse or verses from scripture on a called infant to baptism after they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation.

You talk talk talk, but always lack scripture for all that hot air. There is no reason to believe you, since
you cannot back what you claim.

Faith and baptism do not go hand in hand, they are steps to a completion. The passage you post even illustrates that by making the difference between the Body and the Spirit. You've all made such a cliche out of these things that you fail to read into them.

And
Appealing to the madness of MADists is not going to help you here. I know theological harlotry when I see it

 

[musterion]

Angel,

You're arguing with a likely closet Catholic.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Faith and baptism do not go hand in hand, they are steps to a completion. The passage you post even illustrates that by making the difference between the Body and the Spirit. You've all made such a cliche out of these things that you fail to read into them.

And
Appealing to the madness of MADists is not going to help you here. I know theological harlotry when I see it

In other words, just more hot air, you wont be producing any scripture, i see.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Cornelius was saved before being water baptized.(Acts 10:44-48)

Only a believer is indwelt with the Spirit of God.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

John even said it:

Matthew 3:11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Which is what happened to Cornelius.

Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Not water.

1 Corinthians 1:16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that I do not remember baptizing anyone else. 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with eloquent words of wisdom, lest the cross of the Christ be emptied of its power. 18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.…

For something sooo important as you say, why didn't Paul need to not hinder them from being water baptized the moment they received Christ?

If Cornelius would have heard Peter command water baptism, and refused, he would have become "unsaved" in a hurry.


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Sorry, Peter didn't save Cornelius, Christ did and you didn't answer my question.

Question, if i walk the isle at church, and confess Christ and then i am told i will be water baptized the next week - what happens to me if i die before having water applied to wash my sin away?

I never said anything about Peter saving Cornelius. God saved him, using Peter's preaching. If Cornelius would have decided he didn't believe and didn't need to obey God's word spoken through Peter, Cornelius would have lost his salvation.

Don't see a question, just a bunch of statements. Ask a question and I'll answer it.


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I see your question in the post above. Stand by for an answer.


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Still waiting for responses to my 2 questions to you, that you had me wait for last night yet never answered.

Still waiting simpleman77, you said you would answer my questions and its been days now and you've been posting, for something you maintain is crucial to salvation, why aren't you responding?