Derf
Well-known member
Or God hasn't decided yet when it would be.
Is death just another life?
- Thread starter Derf
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Who took on the flesh...God or the Word ?
Interesting concept, but I feel that God knows everything.
Derf
Well-known member
Why do you "feel" that way?
Derf
Well-known member
I thought you said God can't die. Yet now you say Jesus is God. Did Jesus become God after He died? Or was He always God and somehow He died anyway?
[1Ti 1:17 KJV] 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
IMMORTAL. 1. : not capable of dying
7djengo7
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Which means you feel that God knows that you're a lying, Christ-despising heretic.
God in the flesh.
What an amazing concept!
God IS the LOGOS:
EN ARCHE EN HO LOGOS KAI HO LOGOS EN PROS TON THEON KAI THEOS EN HO LOGOS
In (the) beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with the God and God was the LOGOS.
KAI HO LOGOS SARX EGENETO KAI ESKENOSEN EN HEMIN KAI ESTHEASAMETHA TEN DOXAN AUTOU DOXAN HOS MONOGENOUS PARA PATROS PLERES CHARITOS KAI ALETHEIAS
And the LOGOS flesh became and dwelt among us and we beheld the glory of Him a glory as of an only begotten from (the) Father full of grace and truth
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The LOGOS (God was the LOGOS) became flesh, and tabernacled (ESKENOSEN) among us, just as in the Old Testament, but instead of a tent made of cloth, it was a tent made of flesh.
Jesus is the only one who can save you, Hoping, because HE IS GOD "IN THE FLESH," "God With Us" Immanuel!
Jesus went to the cross to die for you, so that you could place your trust in him, and not in your works, not in keeping a law.
He paid the price that you could never pay through works, by going to the cross and dying for you, because His death, for His value is infinitely greater than the sins of the world, satisfied the demands of justice. The wages of sin is death, thus, when you sin, you deserve death. God was willing to take your place so that you don't have to pay that price!
God has set before you, this day, life and death, Hoping.
Therefore, CHOOSE LIFE, that you may live!
Repent of your unbelief, confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, call upon the name of the LORD, and you will be saved!
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
No. The Psalm doesn't apply to David; it doesn't have anything to do with King David, it is Messianic, it is about the Lord Jesus Christ, and about Him Only. That's literally what Peter is saying right in this passage we're discussing. He's saying that it doesn't apply to David.
Christ descended into Hell. Not David.
Derf
Well-known member
Why did Jesus descend into hell, where David wasn't?
Right Divider
Body part
Are you now exposing yourself as a cultist and a heretic?
Jesus said repeatedly the He and the Father are One. There are not three Gods, there is ONE God. Jesus is THAT SINGULAR God. Jesus is God Himself and chose to become a man and die for your sin. That's the gospel. Deny it at your own peril.
Clete
Derf,
You are not a Christian. The things you say are simply not compatible with Christian doctrine.
Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus died in every way that any other righteous person has ever died. He was separated from the Father (spiritual death) and His spirit separated from His physical body (physical death).
I have never said that God cannot die. God cannot cease to exist. It is only your warped desire to insist that death=non-existence that causes the confusion, which isn't real confusion because you're obfuscating the issue on purpose.
Revelation 1:18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
Derf
Well-known member
...he says while not answering the question.
Right Divider
Body part
I was not asked a question. I was simply making a comment based on your post.
Derf
Well-known member
I quoted a verse that says Jesus is immortal, and you say I'm not a christian? That amazes me.
You say Jesus died in every way a righteous man can die. That's absolutely true. But these are things God can't do. The whole idea that man is really immortal, and can't die like God described in Gen 3 is the linchpin of this topic. Yet you are saying that because I believe what the Bible plainly says, while you agree with what Satan plainly says in that passage, I'm the one that's not a christian? That's amazing to me. Do you even think about what you are saying?
(By the way, I don't agree with @Hoping on a number of things, so if you're confused about what he said vs what I've said, that's understandable, and you may certainly ask for clarification.)
Right Divider
Body part
@JudgeRightly For some reason, TOL told me that this post was a quote of one of mine. But it's not.
No, it doesn't amaze you. You are pushing what you know is blatantly heretical nonsense about being dead means that you don't exist at all and want to play games with my words as though I've adopted your twisted definitions of terms.
Perhaps you're used to dealing with people who are stupid or perhaps you're just a liar. I can't tell and I don't really care. Either way, you neither talk nor act like a christian and you believe things that are antithetical to the Christian faith and I tend to call waddling birds that go "quack", ducts. You're an unbeliever that doesn't seem to give a rip about what the bible teaches so stop with the pretense and just own it and believe what you want to believe and stop worrying about whether your doctrine is in sync with scripture.
What more proof does anyone need? Stop lying to yourself and simply accept that you are not a Christian! It's not like its a secret! Everyone here know it. I knew it months ago, or at least I strongly suspected it when I predicted that you would deny the deity of Christ when you first brought this "death=non-existence" nonsense up.
You're lying. You couldn't care less what the bible actually teaches or else you'd not ignore the overtly and underniably obvious passages that I have directly and repeatedly quoted that make impossible to rationally argue that Jesus was/is anything other than the God Who not only created of the Universe but Who also died and Who is alive forever more.
I haven't read more than two of his posts in months. I couldn't care less what that slobbering moron says or believes. He definitely isn't a Christian. He believes he doesn't sin and therefore will never ask to be saved by the real God, or anyone else for that matter, and so he's going to Hell and that's all there is to it.
He's a prideful heretic and stupid to boot. There's no profit in going more than a centimeter in depth on any topic with him and he spends 99.999% of the time on my ignore list.
Clete
Jesus said "I was dead."
You say Jesus was immortal, ie, "incapable of dying."
Which means either Jesus was lying, and He didn't actually die, or YOU are wrong, that Jesus was immortal.
Then He was not immortal.
The only logical conclusion to this is that Jesus is therefore not God, which is false.
Jesus is God.
Jesus was dead, and was raised from the dead..
Thus, Jesus was not "immortal," at least, not the way you have defined it.
The problem is your definition of immortal, or rather, what it applies to.
Man is immortal. His body will die. He can die spiritually.
But He will not cease to exist. THAT is what we mean when we say "Man is immortal."
Immortal applies to man's existence, not man's status of life, either physical or spiritual.
Jesus died, just as a man does, as Clete said, both physically, in that His physical body died, and spiritually, in that He was "dead to the Father." (Matthew 27:46)
But He will never cease to exist. For He has always existed, and will exist forevermore.
The problem is that your interpretation causes scriptures to conflict.
Ours does not.
You seem to misunderstand something about what was actually said, so let me run through what happened, and you can tell me what you think needs to be addressed.
In Genesis 2:15, note that God had yet to create Eve:
Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:15-17 - New King James Version
Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall...
The very next verse is where God starts planning on making Eve, and He does so after He brings the animals to Adam to name them.
And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:18-22 - New King James Version
And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living...
Scripture never records God telling Eve what He told Adam, and it's likely that He expected Adam to tell Eve about the Tree, and that he did so, based on what Eve said later on.
Jumping to chapter 3, we see Satan's temptation of Eve.
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ” Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3:1-5 - New King James Version
The Temptation and Fall of Man - Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of...
Note the words Eve used:
"We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'"
Catch that?
God did not say "nor shall you touch it."
He said, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Satan's following temptation was not about Adam's words, saying "you shall not eat of it," but rather Eve's words, saying "you shall not eat of it nor touch it."
With that in mind, read what he said again:
“You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
What Satan said was true, "You shall not surely die.... (if you touch it.)"
It was this twisting of what Eve was told, which itself was a law made by Adam around the law God gave to Adam that caused her to sin.
Satan was not saying "in the day that you eat of it, you won't die."
He was twisting the truth, that "in the day that you touch it, you will not die" by leaving out the part about touching it, deceiving Eve into thinking he was talking about the part about eating it.
THAT was the deception that got Satan thrown out of the Garden, and subsequently her eating of the fruit, and Adam's eating of it, that resulted in them both being thrown out.
Again, what Satan said was true, if Eve touched the fruit, she would not die.
What God said was true, that if they ate of it, in that day, they would die.
And die they did. But not because they touched the fruit, rather because they ate of it, in direct disobedience to God.
Your entire position is based on a misreading of what Genesis 3 says.
"You shall not surely die" should not be applied to all of humanity. Rather, it has its own context, that if you try to rip it out of, will result in misunderstanding. We do not reject what Scripture says. We take God at His word.
Right Divider
Body part
By the time I looked, he had already separated those posts, but it still told me that I was quoted in that one:
