Introduction

[Spitfire]

Everybody, unless they condone slavery and abstain from eating shellfish, picks and chooses which Bible verses to believe in.

I do believe this is the part where they will tell you what you really need is to read Bob Enyart's book.

 

[Town Heretic]

For reasons that are a mystery to me, recently I have developed a renewed interest in theology, and stumbled onto this site while surfing the internet.

So you're prone to stumbling then...lain:

I'm mostly a protestant Christian, but on a given day my religious philosophy might be more accurately described as agnostic or deist.

Isn't that a bit like saying you're tall until someone measures you? :think:

There's also a little pantheism thrown in - my user name is one of the Colorado 14ers (mountains with peaks 14,000 feet above sea level) that I have climbed.

Might one assume then that you're accustomed to being higher than most people most of the time? :smokie:

Looking forward to discussing some questions without answers.

If you divide four by half and then continue to repeat the process by halves of each decreasing value--why?

Welcome. :e4e:

 

[Wetterhorn]

chatmaggot: I don't have a clue what the criteria for for salvation is. Although it is in the Bible that Jesus said that no one goes to the father but through him, I just can't accept that. I cannot accept that millions of infants and toddlers who died of childhood accidents or diseases are burning in hell. I cannot accept that millions of people who never even heard Jesus' name are burning in hell. I cannot accept that millions of good, decent people who happen to be Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu are burning in hell.

Again, I do not know what the criteria for salavation is. I believe in the divinity and the teachings of Jesus. But I do draw the line at this "Jesus is the one way and the only way to salvation" business. So I call myself "mostly" Christian. If that kicks me out of your exclusive club, so be it.

 

[chatmaggot]

chatmaggot: I don't have a clue what the criteria for for salvation is. Although it is in the Bible that Jesus said that no one goes to the father but through him, I just can't accept that. I cannot accept that millions of infants and toddlers who died of childhood accidents or diseases are burning in hell. I cannot accept that millions of people who never even heard Jesus' name are burning in hell. I cannot accept that millions of good, decent people who happen to be Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu are burning in hell.

Again, I do not know what the criteria for salavation is. I believe in the divinity and the teachings of Jesus. But I do draw the line at this "Jesus is the one way and the only way to salvation" business. So I call myself "mostly" Christian. If that kicks me out of your exclusive club, so be it.

Thank you for answering honestly.

In regards to your comments you state that you do not have a clue as to what the criteria for salvation is.

Would you be interested in knowing?

You also say that you cannot accept that millions of good people are burning in hell. Would you be surprised to know that salvation has nothing to do with being a good person or doing good things?

 

[Wetterhorn]

chatmaggot: The complete title of the book of Revelation is actually "The Revelation to John". So who is speaking is somebody named John.

It is unclear who this "John" is. It was a common name then, as well as now.

The passage that you cited was in a letter from "John" to "the seven churches that are in Asia".

Here's an interesting quote from Thomas Jefferson concerning the book of Revelation: "It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it and I then considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."

 

[Wetterhorn]

chatmaggot: Of course I would be interested in knowing what the criteria for salvation is. Who wouldn't?

But, listen, I've been going to Sunday School and church for 50+ years. I've taken theology courses in college. I've read theology much more widely than most folks. No offense to you, but I doubt very seriously that you are going to tell me something I haven't already heard many times before.

 

[bybee]

No doubt...

No doubt...

chatmaggot: Of course I would be interested in knowing what the criteria for salvation is. Who wouldn't?

But, listen, I've been going to Sunday School and church for 50+ years. I've taken theology courses in college. I've read theology much more widely than most folks. No offense to you, but I doubt very seriously that you are going to tell me something I haven't already heard many times before.

Then, you have heard "Let those with ears to hear, hear and let those with eyes to see, see!"
You ungrateful pup. You should be appreciative that Chatmaggot took the time to respond to you. bybee

 

[nicholsmom]

Hi!

... Jesus said that no one goes to the father but through him,

This is the part where Jesus calls Himself "the way" right? This verse (Jn 14:6) is one where Jesus, the Christ, is defining Himself. So this second part of the verse "No one comes to the Father except through Me." is the clarification of the definition. Christ Himself is "the way" in that no one can get to the Father unless they follow Christ.

I just can't accept that.

Do you see how rejecting Christ's own definition of Himself is the same thing rejecting Christ Himself?

I cannot accept that millions of infants and toddlers who died of childhood accidents or diseases are burning in hell.

Neither can I. Nor must you to believe that we can't come to the Father except through the Christ. Children aren't responsible for any oath they swear according to the Bible. If they aren't responsible, they aren't held accountable - so there is no account that can be held against them.

I cannot accept that millions of people who never even heard Jesus' name are burning in hell.

Light is given to all so that they have no excuse. I have confidence that the elect will be saved - they will certainly hear the gospel and they will get the regenerated heart to see their sin, hate it, and turn to Christ. We Christians must always be about the work of evangelism so that these may hear the good news.

I cannot accept that millions of good, decent people

Do you also believe in rainbow unicorns and Santa Clause? Another thing that Christ (whom you claim to follow) said is "No one is good but One, that is, God." There is no such thing as a "good, decent" person unless that one is regenerated, and then only by way of the righteousness of Christ that is accounted to the redeemed (it's on our account, paying for our sin).

I believe in the divinity and the teachings of Jesus.

Then take heart, for He is able to save all that have been placed in His hand - that is, He will make sure that they take the Way.

 

[The Barbarian]

Welcome. And don't worry about the Pharisees. If you had to be perfectly correct about theology to be saved, no one would be saved.

But I welcome you to spend some more time considering the scripture and tradition of the Church in your ongoing investigation.

There's more to find, and all of us can learn more about it.

 

[chatmaggot]

chatmaggot: Of course I would be interested in knowing what the criteria for salvation is. Who wouldn't?

But, listen, I've been going to Sunday School and church for 50+ years. I've taken theology courses in college. I've read theology much more widely than most folks. No offense to you, but I doubt very seriously that you are going to tell me something I haven't already heard many times before.

Going to church doesn't mean much. You claim that having gone to church for over half a century yet you do not believe the it was the words of Jesus that John was writing about in Revelation.

You consider yourself an agnostic and a pantheist (some days) yet you believe in the divinity of Jesus (on the other days apparently). You are probably correct, there isn't much I could say that you haven't heard...but maybe now, after 50+ years, you will finally listen.

I could go to a weekly meeting of nuclear physicist for 50+ years, hear everything that they have to say, and still have no idea of what they were talking about. Sadly that is often the case with people and church. They attend, attend, and attend. They hear nice little Bible stories and nuggets of information that makes them feel good. They sit in a pew and are encouraged to be a good person and help neighbor when they need a helping hand. Unfortunately we now have a generation of people that have attended church their entire lives and are loving people straight to hell.

People have become more concerned about the outward (being a "good" person) and forget about the inward (the eternal condition of the soul).