Introduction

[Wetterhorn]

For reasons that are a mystery to me, recently I have developed a renewed interest in theology, and stumbled onto this site while surfing the internet.

I'm mostly a protestant Christian, but on a given day my religious philosophy might be more accurately described as agnostic or deist. There's also a little pantheism thrown in - my user name is one of the Colorado 14ers (mountains with peaks 14,000 feet above sea level) that I have climbed.

Looking forward to discussing some questions without answers.

 

[chatmaggot]

For reasons that are a mystery to me, recently I have developed a renewed interest in theology, and stumbled onto this site while surfing the internet.

I'm mostly a protestant Christian, but on a given day my religious philosophy might be more accurately described as agnostic or deist. There's also a little pantheism thrown in - my user name is one of the Colorado 14ers (mountains with peaks 14,000 feet above sea level) that I have climbed.

Looking forward to discussing some questions without answers.

It is impossible to be "mostly Christian". You are a Christian (a person who believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and His death was for your sin and was the sufficient sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins) or you are not.

The only way a person could claim that they are "mostly Christian" is if they have accepted the false belief that being a Christian is simply an ideological belief system rather than a relationship with the Creator.

Oh, welcome to TOL.

 

[chrysostom]

welcome

 

[Wetterhorn]

chatmaggot: Well, looks like I've flunked your litmus test definition of Christian, since I did not have a perfect score on your criteria.

But putting semantic definitions aside, how can a theological belief be "false"?

 

[GuySmiley]

chatmaggot: Well, looks like I've flunked your litmus test definition of Christian, since I did not have a perfect score on your criteria.

But putting semantic definitions aside, how can a theological belief be "false"?

Thats kind of funny. This made me think of hell having a weekend program or maybe work-release like jails have. Hmmm. . . work-release, I think Catholics would go for that. :chuckle:

But on your question: if you believed that god was a unicorn, and if you climbed a 14'er you could reach his horn, and upon reaching his horn, the horn of god would make you perfect, and lets say that isn't true, that would be a 'false' theological belief.

 

[Wetterhorn]

Guy: But for a belief to be "true" or "false", it has to be capable of being proven or disproven.

Theological beliefs are not capable of being proven or disproven. They are matters of faith.

 

[Thunder's Muse]

I'm just gonna say, Welcome to TOL

 

[chatmaggot]

chatmaggot: Well, looks like I've flunked your litmus test definition of Christian, since I did not have a perfect score on your criteria.

But putting semantic definitions aside, how can a theological belief be "false"?

What I claimed was "false" was a belief system. A belief system is what is false.

For example, suppose someone thinks that being a Christian means that you are nice to people, you help people out, you think that Jesus was a neat guy who taught people to love and do good things. But perhaps there are some things that Jesus said or that is in the Bible that you don't necessarily believe.

As a result, you consider yourself "mostly Christian" because you kind of believe some of the things that the Bible teaches and you kind of agree with some things that Jesus said.

That is what I meant. One cannot be "mostly Christian" if one really understands what it means to be a Christian. The only way one could be "mostly Christian" is if they have a false belief as to what it means to be Christian.

Enjoy your time here. It can be fun!

 

[GuySmiley]

Guy: But for a belief to be "true" or "false", it has to be capable of being proven or disproven.

Theological beliefs are not capable of being proven or disproven. They are matters of faith.

I disagree. Just because we don't know the answer and can't prove it doesn't mean something isn't true or false. I think the answer may be taken on faith. But it is either true or false. Do you believe in absolute truth?

I take on faith that there is not a toaster orbiting Jupiter. I can't prove it, but there either is or isn't a toaster orbiting Jupiter, there is no other option. Its either true or false.

 

[Wetterhorn]

chatmaggot: Let's say that I believe that there might be other ways to salvation other than through Jesus. (E.g., I don't believe that Ghandi is burning in hell). By your definition I would not be a Christian because I do not beleive that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So that's why I say that I am "mostly" Christian, because I accept most, but not all, of your litmus test definition of Christian.

 

[Wetterhorn]

Guy: If somebody in their heart believes that there is a toaster orbiting Jupiter, it might be an irrational belief, but it is not a false belief because it can't be proven one way or another.

 

[chatmaggot]

chatmaggot: Let's say that I believe that there might be other ways to salvation other than through Jesus. (E.g., I don't believe that Ghandi is burning in hell). By your definition I would not be a Christian because I do not beleive that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So that's why I say that I am "mostly" Christian, because I accept most, but not all, of your litmus test definition of Christian.

And that is exactly what I said. You cannot be "mostly Christian" if you really understand what it means to be a Christian.

You are either a Christian or are not. It isn't my "litmus test" it is God's as explained in the Bible.

You can adhere to some of the beliefs of Christianity, but that doesn't make someone a partial Christian.

Jesus says in Revelation 3:15-16

I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

The point being is that I don't want you to be "spit out" nor do I want you to be "mostly Christian". I want you all in so that we may share in God's eternal glory forever.

 

[Wetterhorn]

chatmaggot: OK, so by the definition that you ascribe to, I am not a Christian. And, by the defintion that you ascribe to, I can't even claim to be "mostly" Christian. I guess I need to change my profile on this message board.

But I will point out that verse from Revelation that you quoted was not the words of Jesus.

 

[Newman]

Looks like the welcoming crew has already gone at you, so I'll refrain from the cliche. So, instead, I'll just join in.

Why do you choose to believe some parts of the Bible over others?

 

[elohiym]

Welcome to TOL!

Christian is just a label. Anyone can claim to be a Christian. Obviously, if it's a narrow Way that few find, not all are saved because they call themselves Christian.

Hopefully, you will move beyond the label through your dialogs here.

 

[chatmaggot]

chatmaggot: OK, so by the definition that you ascribe to, I am not a Christian. And, by the defintion that you ascribe to, I can't even claim to be "mostly" Christian. I guess I need to change my profile on this message board.

But I will point out that verse from Revelation that you quoted was not the words of Jesus.

People can call themselves whatever they want. However, a Christian isn't someone that picks and chooses parts of the Bible that they like, and parts of agnosticism they like, and parts of pantheism they like, and then say they are a "mostly Christian". Christianity isn't about a quantity of something you believe in.

Nevertheless just a couple of questions.

You said:

chatmaggot: Let's say that I believe that there might be other ways to salvation other than through Jesus. (E.g., I don't believe that Ghandi is burning in hell). By your definition I would not be a Christian because I do not beleive that Jesus is the only way to salvation. So that's why I say that I am "mostly" Christian, because I accept most, but not all, of your litmus test definition of Christian.

Question #1

It appears that you believe in salvation and a hell. If you don't believe that Gandhi is burning in hell, why not? In other words, what is the criteria for someone being saved and someone being in hell?

You said:

But I will point out that verse from Revelation that you quoted was not the words of Jesus.

Question #2

In light of the passage from Revelation that I quoted (given in it's full context below) who was speaking?

Revelation 3:14-22

“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”

It seems clear, but I could be wrong and will accept it if I am, that the person who is speaking is the beginning of creation ( Colossians 1:15 says speaking of Jesus "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."), standing and knocking at the door, has a throne next to His Father ( 1 Peter 3:21-22 says "Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God..." And also Matthew 26:64). Who else could this be speaking in Revelation but Jesus?

Again, I am glad that you are here. I hope my questioning does not cause you to avoid TheologyOnline and never come back. I am just curious as to what you believe and why.

 

[Dena]

Hello and welcome to TOL. I guess they have already decided you aren't a Christian. Might as well give up on that one and move on to something else.

 

[chatmaggot]

Hello and welcome to TOL. I guess they have already decided you aren't a Christian. Might as well give up on that one and move on to something else.

No one has decided that he/she isn't Christian. I merely questioned the validity of the phrase "mostly Christian". Being a Christian is an either/or. It isn't an almost or kind of.

The only reason someone would use the phrase "mostly Christian" is if thy misunderstand what it means to be Christian. And that is important. I don't want anyone to miss out on the glory God has in store for those that believe because they thought being a Christian meant that you can pick and choose ideas from Christianity that you like, from Islam that you like, from Satanist that you like, from Wiccans that you like, etc...

Christianity isn't about believing good ideas here and there. It's about having a relationship with the Creator.

 

[csuguy]

Guy: But for a belief to be "true" or "false", it has to be capable of being proven or disproven.

Theological beliefs are not capable of being proven or disproven. They are matters of faith.

Things are true/false regardless of our ability to prove them

 

[Wetterhorn]

I see some interesting questions have been posed while I was away for a while.

Everybody, unless they condone slavery and abstain from eating shellfish, picks and chooses which Bible verses to believe in.

It's past my bedtime. More later.