Right Divider
Body part
That's what people who cannot support their claims always say.
Interfaith-oriented Muslim
- Thread starter Absolute_Agent
- Start date
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I support my claims. I can explain it to you, but I cannot learn it for you.
Right Divider
Body part
Then please do just that.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Bishops appear in the New Testament, and are the authentic pastors of the Church. In order to proceed, please answer when you believe that this authentic pastorate became either invalid or null. Many non-Catholics believe it occurred with Constantine and Nicaea, but I gather from what I've read of Dispensationalists, that you think it occurred within Paul's own lifetime, meaning that the office of a bishop (1Ti3:1KJV) basically was stillborn, not even surviving the Apostolic era.
And of course the Orthodox believe that the papacy more or less became invalid around AD 1054, but they still believe that the office of a bishop is valid, and never stopped being so.
And I suppose the rest of the Protestants must through process of elimination believe that the office of a bishop became invalid, null, or void, around AD 1517.
Right Divider
Body part
Where does Jesus call the body of Christ sheep? (HINT: nowhere).
Where does Jesus call Israel His sheep? (HINT: All over the place).
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Non-responsive.
Right Divider
Body part
It's the truth.
Absolute_Agent
New member
The reason you can't agree is that when Protestants declared their independence most rejected the validity of tradition (magisterium) and leadership (papacy) in determining truth, in favor of scripture. The doctrine known as "sola scriptura." Anglicans are Methodists the exception, which hold to "prima scriptura," where scriptures are primary, but not divorced from tradition and reason. The Catholic Church holds but scriptures and tradition as equal sources of revelation.
I myself was raised under "sola scriptura", but rejected this in favor of "prima scriptura" in my teen years when I realized contradictions in the scriptures couldn't possibly be resolved without the use of reasoning. This in turn led the realization that the Protestant Bible was never intended by its authors to be a definitive and exclusive source of scripture. So I branched out into the apocrypha & pseudipigrapha, soon becoming surprised that the Catholic Bible was different from the Protestant Bible. Both cannons had been defined by an arbitrary decision of a council or other human authority, but there was no indication in the scripture itself as to what was to constitute the cannon, if anything. 20 years later I am still "prima scriptura," except that my scripture included the Qur'an, which I consider to be the final and authoritative revelation and the standard against which all other information is evaluated. I appreciate the value of tradition more than I used to, and I've noticed the Catholic Church is doing a lot of outreach and reunification efforts towards other Christians and Muslims. You probably know the Pope meet with several religious leaders (unprecedented move) including the Russian Orthodox Bishop, the President of the Mormon Church, and the leader of the United Arab Emirates.
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Acts 20:28 KJV is true too.
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed it is.
The analogy used for the BODY of Christ is a BODY and not a flock of sheep.
Note the completely missing word "sheep" in the entire passage?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Right Divider
Body part
Doesn't say, does it? Sheep are not the only animals that are called a flock.
Paul NEVER calls the BODY of Christ "sheep" in ANY of his epistles.
Paul is the ONE that coins the term "body of Christ" with regard to believers in the present dispensation.
If you would rightly divide as Paul commands, you could possibly understand these things.