In the mountain of the LORD it shall be seen - Genesis 22

[Ben Masada]

Proof? You are still living under the "OLD" Law, the Law of Moses. Had you sacrificed Messiah in the Temple, on the Altar, then Messiah would have been RESURRECTED (as the pattern of Abraham & Isaac showed you). Since you threw him out of the Temple and delivered him to the Gentiles, he was "hung on a tree (wood)" outside the CITY, and thus died for the Gentiles (and any believing Jews). But the NATION Israel still remains in unbelief and thus still under the CURSE of the Law of Moses.

And so was Jesus when he said that we are to observe the Law down to the letter until heaven and earth passed away. (Mat. 5:17-17) Then he warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) When you pray to hims, why don't you ask him why he was still stuck to the old Law?

There was absolutely nothing about resurrection as Abraham and Isaac were concerned. Nobody threw Jesus out of the Temple. He was crucified because his own disciples were acclaiming him king of the Jews in Jerusalem, a Roman province at the time. (Luke 19:37-40) Hence his verdict commanded by Pilate to be nailed on the top of Jesus' cross. INRI. Better evidence you can't provide of the opposite. So, Jesus died as a result of political insurrection and not because of the sins of another which was prophetically forbidden. No one could die for the sins of another. (Ezekiel 18:3,20)

If according to you, there is any curse in the Law of Moses, Jesus was the first cursed one for telling us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) See the danger you are doing to your own self for not reading your own NT? I'll tell you with whom the curse resides: With those who curse Israel. If you read Numbers 24:5,9
"Blessed are they who bless Israel and accursed are those who curse Israel."

 

[Ben Masada]

Sure
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the New Covenant in my blood, which is shed for you. - Luke 22:19-20
Beginning with Adam & Eve, God has always required the blood sacrifice of an innocent for the remission of sin. God's final act in this respect was the sacrifice of Yeshua, in accordance with the pattern shown Abraham in the role of "God" and his "only son" Isaac in the role of Yeshua Messiah.
Pretty straight-forward.

You didn't listen to my request. I asked you not to use the gospel of Paul aka the NT but the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach.

 

[marhig]

Sure
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the New Covenant in my blood, which is shed for you. - Luke 22:19-20
Beginning with Adam & Eve, God has always required the blood sacrifice of an innocent for the remission of sin. God's final act in this respect was the sacrifice of Yeshua, in accordance with the pattern shown Abraham in the role of "God" and his "only son" Isaac in the role of Yeshua Messiah.
Pretty straight-forward.

Jesus sacrificed his whole life for God, he was a living sacrifice. His death on the natural cross doesn't save anyone, it was a wicked act done wicked men. His life saves, as it says in the Bible.

 

[marhig]

You didn't listen to my request. I asked you not to use the gospel of Paul aka the NT but the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach.

God doesn't want a natural human sacrifice as in to be murdered, he said thou shalt not kill, and that's in any way whatsoever including murdering Jesus! He wants a living sacrifice, and Jesus was a living sacrifice and denied his own will to do the will of God, and through him those who truly belong to him are living sacrifices also, and God wants us to turn from sin and do his will and obey him just as Jesus did and through him and by the spirit we should be dying to the lusts of the flesh. Jesus showed us the way, he gave his whole life to God, he is the way, the truth and the life and his is the only true way to follow.

 

[Ben Masada]

God doesn't want a natural human sacrifice as in to be murdered, he said thou shalt not kill, and that's in any way whatsoever including murdering Jesus! He wants a living sacrifice, and Jesus was a living sacrifice and denied his own will to do the will of God, and through him those who truly belong to him are living sacrifices also, and God wants us to turn from sin and do his will and obey him just as Jesus did and through him and by the spirit we should be dying to the lusts of the flesh. Jesus showed us the way, he gave his whole life to God, he is the way, the truth and the life and his is the only true way to follow.

Jesus was murdered by the Romans and he was not the only one. If you read Josephus' book "The Wars of the Jews" thousands of Jews were murdered by the Romans only in the First Century, and all of them in crosses, the same way as Jesus was murdered. At least, you admit that to die on the cross was not Jesus' will; he was forced into it as all the others before and during Jesus' lifetime.

"To obey God just as Jesus did" and taught us to do the same by obeying the Law down to the letter till heaven and earth passed away. (Mat. 5:17-17)And to achieve salvation, he also taught us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) That's the only way to turn from our sins.

 

[marhig]

Jesus was murdered by the Romans and he was not the only one. If you read Josephus' book "The Wars of the Jews" thousands of Jews were murdered by the Romans only in the First Century, and all of them in crosses, the same way as Jesus was murdered. At least, you admit that to die on the cross was not Jesus' will; he was forced into it as all the others before and during Jesus' lifetime.

"To obey Him just as Jesus did" and taught us to do the same by obeying the Law down to the letter till heaven and earth passed away. (Mat. 5:17-17)And to achieve salvation, he also taught us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) That's the only way to turn from our sins.

Jesus's will was to do Gods will, and God foretold what would happen to him in the old testament and Jesus fulfilled the scriptures. He bore whatever suffering he had to go through including the cross and he overcame. He overcame Satan and this world and Satan had no hold on him, he overcame evil with good. But his death on that cross doesn't save anyone. Life saves not death, the only death God wants to see is the death of the lusts of our flesh and for us to obey him and do his will, following Jesus. God writes his law within our hearts and minds and teaches us through Christ by the holy spirit.

I don't believe that we just ignore the old testament but the new testament is a new and living way through Christ, where God teaches us directly through the spirit and we live by the spirit. It says in the Bible that the foundation of the church is built on the apostles and the prophets and Christ is the cornerstone. So in no way do we just ignore them. Paul even said that we establish the law. We turn from our sins by following Jesus, because he lived out the way perfectly.

But Ben, although many jews loved and followed Jesus, I'm afraid you're Jewish leaders of that time murdered him, Jesus said to Pilate that those who have handed me over to you have committed the greater sin. They sinned before God and handed over Jesus to be crucified, yelling and screaming "crucify him" and urging the people to do the same when pilate wanted to let him go! They we're wicked men led by Satan doing the work of their father the devil, and they crucified the holy son of the living God, the prince of life and peace. I hope that they repented before they died and that God has forgiven them.

 

[beameup]

You didn't listen to my request. I asked you not to use the gospel of Paul aka the NT but the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. - Leviticus 17:11

Unless you regularly go to the priest and have him offer up sacrifices for you sins, in the Temple, your sins will abide on you and you will be under the curse of the Law.

And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein. - Leviticus 6:7

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus's will was to do Gods will, and God foretold what would happen to him in the old testament and Jesus fulfilled the scriptures. He bore whatever suffering he had to go through including the cross and he overcame. He overcame Satan and this world and Satan had no hold on him, he overcame evil with good. But his death on that cross doesn't save anyone. Life saves not death, the only death God wants to see is the death of the lusts of our flesh and for us to obey him and do his will, following Jesus. God writes his law within our hearts and minds and teaches us through Christ by the holy spirit.

If Jesus' will was to do God's will, why would he pray three times in the Gethsemane asking God to change His will when he knew that God is not like a man to change His mind?

Something interesting among the things you have said above is that, "The only death God wants to see is the death of the lust of our flesh." If you read Romans 7:25, Paul could not satisfy the Lord's wish to see the death of the lust of his flesh as he said that he was okay with God's Law in his mind but he could not quit serving sin in his flesh. Perhaps he thought he could serve two masters: The Law in his mind and sin in his flesh. We can see that he was in a constant struggle agains an addicting sinful condition as if it were a thorn in his flesh.

 

[Ben Masada]

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. Leviticus 17:11 Unless you regularly go to the priest and have him offer up sacrifices for you sins, in the Temple, your sins will abide on you and you will be under the curse of the Law. And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein. - Leviticus 6:7

Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post - Can you use his gospel to provide us with an evidence that he presented us with the New Covenant and we refused it? Please, no quote from the NT because Jesus never even dreamed that it would ever rise.

The above was my question and there is no answer in the book of Leviticus. I think you would make it much easier to acknowledge that you made a mistake.

 

[marhig]

If Jesus' will was to do God's will, why would he pray three times in the Gethsemane asking God to change His mind when he knew that God is not like a man to change His mind?

Something interesting thing you have said above, "The only death God wants to see is the death of the lust of our flesh." If you read Romans 7:25, Paul could not satisfy the Lord's wish to see the death of the lust of his flesh as he said that he was okay with God's Law in his mind but he could not quit serving sin in his flesh. Perhaps he thought he could serve two masters: The Law in his mind and sin in his flesh. We can see that he was in a constant struggle agains a addicting sinful condition as if it were a thorn in his flesh.

Because Jesus knew what was before him was hard to bare, but he was willing for it and Jesus also said, not my will but thy will be done. Jesus always did the will of God leaving us an example to follow

As for Paul, all those who truly follow Jesus suffer, Jesus told us to deny ourselves, so we will suffer trying to deny our flesh, this is why we need the strength of Christ by the spirit to help us to overcome. Paul knew that this flesh was wicked and driven by our lusts with Satan wooing us at every turn, but Jesus taught us to obey God and fight our flesh and deny our will and obey God.

Paul was explaining about the suffering he was enduring yet the spirit within his heart was warring against his flesh and teaching him to turn away. It's not easy to deny yourself, and it's a cross that all those who truly follow Jesus have to bare. We go through suffering, suffering on the inside as we deny ourselves and obey God and suffering on the outside through persecutions from others. But as we are going through all this we are being cleansed by the holy spirit within, yet tried by fire, suffering and being purged of our sins, living by the will of God and denying the lusts of the flesh as Jesus did and through him we will overcome. And we have peace in our heart, I know because I am living it out. And I know there is no other way. The prophets taught us in the old testament how to live before God, Jesus came and lived it out to show us the way. His way is the truth and the only way to follow to get back to God.

You can try to obey the laws Ben. But that's not enough, God wants us to follow Jesus and walk the walk and live it out, being doers of the word, and the spirit puts our old life in the flesh to death he brings us life, bringing us from darkness into light, from death to life, so that the things of this world mean nothing anymore, and the only thing that matters is to love God with all our heart and minds and to please him first and we are to put ourselves last, caring and sharing and bringing the love of God to all we meet and to bring Christ to all with the hope that they will believe, repent and come back to God.

 

[beameup]

Please, no quote from the NT
The above was my question and there is no answer in the book of Leviticus. I think you would make it much easier to acknowledge that you made a mistake.

You insist that the New Testament not be used, and yet you constantly quote it.
Is it determinate on whether or not you like what is says?
You claim to abide by the Law, so I quote Leviticus for you.
Truth is, you cannot obey the Law because there is no Temple or Priesthood.
I've clearly shown you the real site of the Temple there in the City of
David, so why are you not pushing for its establishment?

 

[beameup]

"Crucifixion of Messiah!" Crucifixion is akin to death and, the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Ah-Ah-Ah-Ah.......your nose will grow Pinocchio
Messiah ben Joseph was considered the "suffering servant" for Israel
Messiah ben David was considered a King over Israel (he'll be coming soon).
As well, the theology of Judaism during the BCE/CE was that there were Two Powers in Heaven:
this is derived from Daniel 7:13 and elsewhere... the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.

 

[beameup]

Whatever.
Have a nice time with your silly obsession.

Just good God-given detective work there Sherlock. :sherlock:
Take Google Earth and zoom in on the City of David.
The area is an archeological dig and many things being uncovered.
They've gone down below Solomon's Temple and found some interesting things.

Looking east from the Ophel/Millo below the south wall of the Haram al Sharif,
looking across the Kidron Valley, looking at Silwan, is the location of the crucifixions.
There is a large cemetery north of that where religious Jews believe Messiah will set-foot on earth.
The Haram al Sharif is the typical dimensions of a Roman Fort housing a Legion, and overlooked the Temple.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ah-Ah-Ah-Ah.......your nose will grow Pinocchio. Messiah ben Joseph was considered the "suffering servant" for Israel Messiah ben David was considered a King over Israel (he'll be coming soon). As well, the theology of Judaism during the BCE/CE was that there were Two Powers in Heaven: this is derived from Daniel 7:13 and elsewhere... the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man.

Well! What can I say to you! You have been waiting for 2000 years; it won't be too hard to wait for another 2000 years. I know you are very patient. Messiah ben Joseph was the Suffering Servant all right. He did not die. He became the Scapegoat and was sent Eastward through the desert and got lost among the nations. Messiah ben David is Judah who was redeemed by Israel and promised to David to remain as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever.(I Kings 11:36)

 

[Ben Masada]

You insist that the New Testament not be used, and yet you constantly quote it. Is it determinate on whether or not you like what is says? You claim to abide by the Law, so I quote Leviticus for you. Truth is, you cannot obey the Law because there is no Temple or Priesthood. I've clearly shown you the real site of the Temple there in the City of David, so why are you not pushing for its establishment?

Because I am often-hand in contact with the Temple Yeshiva and I know what is going on in there. They are preparing themselves to have the sacrifices restored and, I agree with Jeremiah 7:22 that the Lord never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. I consider the sacrifices the main cause for all the problems of Israel. Israel throughout History has given enough evidences of idolatry because of sacrifices.

 

[Ben Masada]

Because Jesus knew what was before him was hard to bare, but he was willing for it and Jesus also said, not my will but thy will be done. Jesus always did the will of God leaving us an example to follow.

What does it mean, that Jesus was forced to walk the Via Dolorosa agains his will!

As for Paul, all those who truly follow Jesus suffer, Jesus told us to deny ourselves, so we will suffer trying to deny our flesh, this is why we need the strength of Christ by the spirit to help us to overcome. Paul knew that this flesh was wicked and driven by our lusts with Satan wooing us at every turn, but Jesus taught us to obey God and fight our flesh and deny our will and obey God.

This above does not explain why Paul would think of the Law in his mind only, while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25) He was doing nothing to subject his sinful passions.

Paul was explaining about the suffering he was enduring yet the spirit within his heart was warring against his flesh and teaching him to turn away. It's not easy to deny yourself, and it's a cross that all those who truly follow Jesus have to bare. We go through suffering, suffering on the inside as we deny ourselves and obey God and suffering on the outside through persecutions from others. But as we are going through all this we are being cleansed by the holy spirit within, yet tried by fire, suffering and being purged of our sins, living by the will of God and denying the lusts of the flesh as Jesus did and through him we will overcome. And we have peace in our heart, I know because I am living it out. And I know there is no other way. The prophets taught us in the old testament how to live before God, Jesus came and lived it out to show us the way. His way is the truth and the only way to follow to get back to God.

No, he was not! Read the whole chapter 7 of Romans and you will see that he was making of himself a supernatural man with the allowance to be in "Christ" while serving sin in his flesh. The point is that he could not get rid of that thorn in his flesh.

You can try to obey the laws Ben. But that's not enough, God wants us to follow Jesus and walk the walk and live it out, being doers of the word, and the spirit puts our old life in the flesh to death he brings us life, bringing us from darkness into light, from death to life, so that the things of this world mean nothing anymore, and the only thing that matters is to love God with all our heart and minds and to please him first and we are to put ourselves last, caring and sharing and bringing the love of God to all we meet and to bring Christ to all with the hope that they will believe, repent and come back to God.

No, he could not confess to follow Jesus while living in sin because, as he said, he could not get rid of it. What authority did he have to say that he had been released from the Law? (Romans 7:6) Really, I don't care how he was living his life as long as he did not try to exercise authority over the lives of others.

 

[Ben Masada]

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. - Leviticus 17:11
Unless you regularly go to the priest and have him offer up sacrifices for you sins, in the Temple, your sins will abide on you and you will be under the curse of the Law. And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein. - Leviticus 6:7

Those were Jewish rituals applied to the Jews only and not all Jews. No one had the obligation that pertains to the Decalogue to obey.

 

[chair]

Just good God-given detective work there Sherlock. :sherlock:
Take Google Earth and zoom in on the City of David...

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the archaeologists who excavate and study that area disagree with you, Sherlock?

I suppose there is a conspiracy afoot to explain this...

edit: Have you ever actually been in Jerusalem? Or is your knowledge all Google Earth based?

 

[beameup]

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the archaeologists who excavate and study that area disagree with you, Sherlock?

I suppose there is a conspiracy afoot to explain this...

No, its called EGO. "the established archeology" is STUBBORNLY ENTRENCHED (sound familiar?). There are definite clues left by God the Ruach Elohim in the scripture and now (being uncovered), in the earth.
But hey, if you want to bow to a Roman Wall, built by Valerious Gratus in 20 A.D., then by all means continue to worship a pagan wall.

 

[beameup]

What does it mean, that Jesus was forced to walk the Via Dolorosa agains his will!

"Via Dolorosa"??? That whole area in Jerusalem was misidentified by Emperor Constantine's crazy psychic mother Helena.
I've clearly laid out the route in several posts, starting with the true location of the Temple at the south-east foot of Haram al Sharif, in the City of David.
From there, at the south-west foot of Haram al Sharif there was a causeway and steps leading up to the Roman Antonia Fortress (the so-called "Temple Mount").
Once upon the elevated Roman Fort, Jesus was taken to the Praetorium which has been mis-identified as the rocky outcropping in the "Dome of the Rock".
From there, Jesus was taken east and taken across the Kidron Valley (there were bridges), and to the area now identified as Silwan. He was crucified there, within sight of the Temple entrance.