In the mountain of the LORD it shall be seen - Genesis 22

[beameup]

YHWH said: Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
- Genesis 22:3,6,9,10 KJV

 

[beameup]

And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh:
as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
- Genesis 22:14

Looking straight east from the Temple, across the Kidron Valley,
is the site of the Roman crucifixions. From the crucifixion site,
the veil of the Temple could be seen.

 

[beameup]

Jesus at the Mount of Olives, where he would be arrested later:

And being in agony Jesus was praying very fervently;
and His sweat became like drops of blood,
falling down upon the ground. - Luke 22:44

Now, just a very short distance south of this location
was the spot where the Romans crucified prisoners.

 

[beameup]

So, from the southern Mount of Olives, where the crucifixion took place, looking west,
less than 1,000 feet away, the Temple veil could be seen by Jesus as he hung on the cross:
"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.
And, behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom."
Matthew 27:50-51a

 

[beameup]

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,
having become a curse for us—for it is written,
“CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON WOOD [A TREE] ”—
Galatians 3:13

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings beameup,

So, from the southern Mount of Olives, where the crucifixion took place, looking west,
less than 1,000 feet away, the Temple veil could be seen by Jesus as he hung on the cross:
"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.
And, behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom."
Matthew 27:50-51a

There is no indication in the record that Jesus was looking at the veil through the Temple walls when he was on the cross, and he would not be looking at the rent veil, as this was rent when or after he died.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings beameup,There is no indication in the record that Jesus was looking at the veil through the Temple walls when he was on the cross, and he would not be looking at the rent veil, as this was rent when or after he died.

Kind regards
Trevor

The N.T. record reads like an eyewitness. From the top of the crucifixion mount, looking west, across the Kidron Valley, the huge veil would have been visible.
Attention to detail and absolute precision is a hallmark of God.

 

[chair]

The N.T. record reads like an eyewitness. From the top of the crucifixion mount, looking west, across the Kidron Valley, the huge veil would have been visible.
Attention to detail and absolute precision is a hallmark of God.

There are a whole lot of assumptions that you have made here. You talk about "precision", then pretend that your ideas are in the text- when they are not. If the text didn't say that the veil was visible from teh Mount of Olives- how can you claim that it does?

 

[beameup]

There are a whole lot of assumptions that you have made here. You talk about "precision", then pretend that your ideas are in the text- when they are not. If the text didn't say that the veil was visible from teh Mount of Olives- how can you claim that it does?

Do the math.
How wide is the Kidron Valley at the City of David? About 600 feet, or so?
What are the dimensions of the Temple veil? About 30 feet wide? (60' long)
It's not "rocket science", although for you, it might be. :chuckle:

 

[chair]

Do the math.
How wide is the Kidron Valley at the City of David? About 600 feet, or so?
What are the dimensions of the Temple veil? About 30 feet wide? (60' long)
It's not "rocket science", although for you, it might be. :chuckle:

My point is that you are pretending that the text says something that it simply doesn't say.
Did you think about whether this veil was visible from outside the building? As far as I know- it was the curtain that covered the Holy of Holies- which is an internal structure.

 

[beameup]

My point is that you are pretending that the text says something that it simply doesn't say.
Did you think about whether this veil was visible from outside the building? As far as I know- it was the curtain that covered the Holy of Holies- which is an internal structure.

You need to research the Temple dimensions and specifications. The entrance was very large, so that you could see inside from afar when the doors were open. There obviously were "eyewitnesses", as Matthew, Mark, and Luke record the event. The crucifixion site picked by the Romans would have been a deliberate attempt to intimidate and mock the Jewish religious authorities. The Temple faced eastward, toward the Kidron and what is now Silwan. :sherlock:

Now, where is the "traditional" spot where Messiah will initially set-foot upon planet earth??? (hint: there is a cemetery in the area).
Care to guess where Abraham offered-up his only son Isaac as a sacrifice???

 

[chair]

Whatever.
Have a nice time with your silly obsession.

 

[jamie]

My point is that you are pretending that the text says something that it simply doesn't say.
Did you think about whether this veil was visible from outside the building? As far as I know- it was the curtain that covered the Holy of Holies- which is an internal structure.

The veil was torn in two, Jesus died, the sun shone again and a centurion saw what happened and said, "Certainly this was a righteous Man!"

During the darkness before Jesus died the inside of the Temple was well lit and because of the darkness outside the Temple the veil could be clearly seen since the sunlight didn't obscure the light coming from inside the Temple.

And so it was...

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup and greetings Jamie,

The N.T. record reads like an eyewitness. From the top of the crucifixion mount, looking west, across the Kidron Valley, the huge veil would have been visible.
Attention to detail and absolute precision is a hallmark of God.

During the darkness before Jesus died the inside of the Temple was well lit and because of the darkness outside the Temple the veil could be clearly seen since the sunlight didn't obscure the light coming from inside the Temple.

You raise an interesting concept, but my impression has previously been that the door or curtain from the outside into the Holy Place was not normally open so that the public could not normally see into the Holy Place. Only the priests were allowed into the Holy Place, and normally the only light available was from the Lampstand. If the door or curtain was open then the light from the Lampstand would be diminished in its role of lighting the Holy Place. I would be interested to hear from you as to where you deduct that this curtain or door was open.

In one of my favourite visions, Isaiah saw into the Most Holy Place Isaiah 6, but this was a remarkable exception. Also I do not believe that the people witnessed the appearance of Gabriel to Zechariah when he went into the Holy Place.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Whatever.
Have a nice time with your silly obsession.

Isaiah 59:2
your iniquities have separated between you and your God,
and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isaiah 53:5
But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.

 

[Ben Masada]

In the Mountain of the Lord it Shall Be Seen.

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you are to sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

 

[Ben Masada]

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON WOOD [A TREE] Galatians 3:13

If Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the Law, why would he warn us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law? [Luke 16:29-31) Because he knew that no one could live without the Law. Try to live without the Law in any country in the world and you will learn the hard way.

 

[Ben Masada]

So, from the southern Mount of Olives, where the crucifixion took place, looking west,
less than 1,000 feet away, the Temple veil could be seen by Jesus as he hung on the cross: "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit. And, behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom." Matthew 27:50-51a

...and the Hellenist who wrote that gospel attributed to Matthew lied blatantly because there is no record in the Talmud of such a tearing of the Holy of Holies in the Temple. Besides, the sacrifices kept on being offered for another 40 years and reaching a stopping point only when the Temple was destroyed by the Romans. Embarrassing, isn't it!

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus at the Mount of Olives, where he would be arrested later: And being in agony Jesus was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground. - Luke 22:44
Now,just a very short distance south of this location was the spot where the Romans crucified prisoners.

And do you know why was Jesus sweating like drops of blood? Because he prayed three times not to walk the Via Dolorosa and got no answer to his prayers. So he gave up and said, "Be Thy will done, not mine." What was Jesus' will? Not to die on the cross, of course! It means he was forced to the cross against his own will! I hope from now on, you will cease claiming that Jesus died on the cross willingly for our sake because it was not true if you consider his terror in the Gethsemane as his hour approached to be arrested.

 

[beameup]

And do you know why was Jesus sweating like drops of blood? Because he prayed three times not to walk the Via Dolorosa and got no answer to his prayers.

You obviously haven't read my posts here on this subject. Nothing happened on the WEST side of Haram al Sharif. Constantine's mother, Helena, in the 4th century, mis-identified every so-called "holy place" in Jerusalem.
From the Roman Fort Antonia (Haram al Sharif), Jesus was taken EAST across the Kidron Valley (there was a bridge) to Moriah, which is south of the Mount of Olives. (Moriah is now called Silwan).
Moriah is the place where Abraham offered-up his "only son" as a sacrifice. He obeyed God because he believed in the RESURRECTION and the promises made to his "seed".