SaulToPaul 2
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I wonder who SimpleMan777 really is.
ECT If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?
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SimpleMan77
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SaulToPaul 2
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Have you been on TOL before with another name?
SimpleMan77
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SimpleMan77
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If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?
Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
The writer was dealing with a group who had stagnated in their spiritual development. For the time they should have been teachers, they needed someone to teach them the basics of living for God. The writer challenges them to mature so they can leave the basics behind.
What were those basics?
1. Repentance
2. Faith
3. Baptisms
4. Laying on of hands
5. Resurrection of the dead
6. Eternal judgement
This is the equivalent of students getting satisfied in the third grade, and wanting to go back through it over and over again. The teacher tells them that it is time to go to the next level.
Going to the next level does not mean abandoning the precepts, it just means not having to learn them over and over again. At some point you have to go ahead and use what you have learned about multiplication to start studying algebra. It does not negate the importance of multiplication, but you have to build on top of that to reach your potential.
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Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
The writer was dealing with a group who had stagnated in their spiritual development. For the time they should have been teachers, they needed someone to teach them the basics of living for God. The writer challenges them to mature so they can leave the basics behind.
What were those basics?
1. Repentance
2. Faith
3. Baptisms
4. Laying on of hands
5. Resurrection of the dead
6. Eternal judgement
This is the equivalent of students getting satisfied in the third grade, and wanting to go back through it over and over again. The teacher tells them that it is time to go to the next level.
Going to the next level does not mean abandoning the precepts, it just means not having to learn them over and over again. At some point you have to go ahead and use what you have learned about multiplication to start studying algebra. It does not negate the importance of multiplication, but you have to build on top of that to reach your potential.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Each person's pattern of thought is ever recurrent throughout their posts, and in a manner similar to the pattern of lines unique to each person's finger print; is uniquely their own.
In your case, the pattern of thought I've observed recurrent throughout your posts is not one I have seen before in the time I have been on TOL.
Here and there, one will notice similarities in patterns between some posters - even between posters clearly at odds with one another - but the overall "person" of each individual is ever present in the whole of their word use and structure, in a manner mostly unique to their posts.
It is what is referred to in the world of writing as a writer's unique "voice."
Hi and here is what Heb 6:1 means , but at least you tried !!
The first verb in Heb 6:1 IS :
LEAVING / APHIEMI and it means to DEPART from the teachings of Christ !! and it un-escapeable !!!!
The Greek word for LEAVING / APHIEMI means to to send away , to depart , or to expire are just a few that FIT into Heb 6:1 !!
The second verb is LET us go unto perfection !!
And also leaving behind the foundation of REPENTANCE no more Repentance !!
That is what Heb 6:1 is trying to tell those Jews during the Tribulation !!
And the last is LAYING that foundation again and in Heb 6:2 , it means BAPTISM !!
dan p
SimpleMan77
New member
Ok, I'll bite. Does he mean no more faith in God or belief in eternal judgement?
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Hi and you do not believe what is the OBVIOUS in Heb 6:1
Fisrt , the Jews ONLY believed in God the Father and in John 14:1 tells them to also believe in ME !!
In the Gospels , the Greek word for JUDGMENT is KRIMA and is translated in the gospels , Damnation , Condemnation and Judgment 7 times !!
The Greek word KRINO IS translated , Judge , judged , Judging over 30 times in the Gospels .
Some feel that Jesus wanted them to focus on Eternal salvation , instead of Eternal Judgment !!
dan p
SimpleMan77
New member
Please enlighten me.
If this means abandon these things, why are we supposed to abandon faith toward God?
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He is saying ,If you believe in the FATHER , believe also in Me, Jesus and that was spoken to the Jews in the Tribulation and you are not there !!
dan p
Not necessarily a bad breakdown on your part, there.
It reveals a certain ability to break a thing down to its' various components.
With one exception.
It...is...not for us.
What you basically did was not do to bad a job on your taxes - but - under another man's Tax Code :chuckle:
You might as well do your taxes this year under the Tax Code in place during the Reagan Administration just because the book in your hand says so.
Other than that; your above actually shows the potential for a rather sharp Mid-Acts Dispensationalist in you.
The required sharpness is there. It's just that your intel is off.
You need to start gathering the needed info.
The key distinctions that allow seeing what goes where, when, why, and how, as to whom.
The decoder ring, as some mockingly call it :chuckle:
SimpleMan77
New member
Setting aside the issue of who this is/isn't addressed to, the substance of my explanation is sound. It's really not hard to see that the writer isn't instructing them to forsake anything, he's prompting them to go further with it. The last part of Chapter 5 spells it out. They should be teachers at this time in their walk with God, and instead are needing to be taught.
Obviously we don't agree on who the book is addressed to, and there's nothing in this passage that clarifies that other than this:
The "principles" that are mentioned here are all taught by both Paul and the other apostles, to both Jews and Gentiles.
Because there is only one Body now, made of both, it is possible for anyone to stagnate in their walk with God. Paul and Peter both taught the necessity of growth.
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Yes and even Paul spoke of the fathers of the faith as being fathers of the Corinthian gentiles.
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
LA
[Jesus]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”[/Jesus]
-Matthew 7:21-23
Just because someone calls themselves a brother doesn't mean they are. Paul is telling them to deal with one who calls themselves a Christian and wallows in sin, especially those who act as though there's nothing wrong with it.
You are also assuming the loss of salvation, that is if it was there to begin with.
Apostacy is real and deadly. Sinners can and do enter into superficial relationships with God and yet do not get saved. According to the parable of the sower, these superficial but fake Christians can endure for a while but then fall away for one reason or another over time. We are told in 2 Peter that the last state of those apostates is worse than the first. That is because if a sinner falls away as is mentioned in Hebrews 6, he can no longer be saved.
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Please try to prove that from Paul's epistles.
Why? Are Paul's writings more spiritual than others? Let's just assume Paul wrote Hebrews and I rest my case.
Because Paul says otherwise. And we know that Paul, at the very least, did not contradict himself.
No, just addressed to a different audience than the other books in the New Testament.
No, let's NOT assume that, because that's called begging the question. It's a logical fallacy for a reason.
For one, for the sake of the argument, if Paul DID write Hebrews, he would have contradicted himself when, in his other epistles, he said:
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. - Ephesians 1:13-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians1:13-14&version=NKJV