ECT If MAD is False What Does Hebrews 6:4-6 Mean for Us?

Crucible

Crucible

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heir said:
Just as Paul said...2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV
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The gospel was hid from all Christians, all lost, until Darby came and told it?
So did Joseph Smith and Ellen White :idunno:

And
You're MADism is too vain for anyone who does not follow it to be 'lost'. You all don't even follow Paul, you follow your own gospel which is being a reprobate because everything else is a 'work' :rolleyes:
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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SimpleMan77 said:
Why does it bother me when people claim to be knowledgeable on biblical topics, then make outlandish claims, implying that things that are so easy to see aren't in the Bible?

Obviously they're trying to fool themselves or someone who may not take the time to read what's being discussed.

You want biblical verse - here you are:

1 Corinthians 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication AMONG YOU, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Verse 5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Verses 11-13
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if ANY MAN THAT IS CALLED A BROTHER be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge THEM THAT ARE WITHIN? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Next epistle, referencing the above situation, which was the only situation he dealt with in that manner:

2 Corinthians 2:4-11
For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

So here he exhorts them to forgive the man, and says that he, Paul, forgives him also "in the person of Christ".

The punishment was so "a person within" could be saved. Forgiveness was given once repentance happened. That is spelled out in third grade English.
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  1. It is not explicit that it is referring to the same situation; you have inferred it, though it is not even implied.
  2. Even if you are correct in this you have assumed that the man was saved prior to his fornication, and there is no evidence at all that you can even attempt to point to to support that idea. There is neither indication, nor implication that the man was saved before fornicating with his stepmother.

dodge said:
1 John applies to the BOC ! How could you not understand that ?

1Jo 1:1

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jo 1:2
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1Jo 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jo 1:5

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
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I don't see any reference to the Body of Christ in 1 John.

dodge said:
PJ, you do know what you posted above contradicts scripture right ?

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
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It was a joke. You really need to get a sense of humor.

dodge said:
And on another note this post contradicts scripture:

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
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That doesn't mean it's all applicable directly to us. Even you don't believe it's directly applicable to us. In no way did he contradicted 2 Timothy 3:16.

dodge said:
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 907 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
baptizo from a derivative of (911)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Baptizo 1:529,92
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
bap-tid'-zo
Definition
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm
Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that showsthe meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physicianNicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making picklesand is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that inorder to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped'(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in thevinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in asolution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act ofbaptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to ourunion and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g.Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'.Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. Theremust be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to thepickle! Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989.
NAS Word Usage - Total: 76


http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexic...s/baptizo.html
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And you can't possibly be immersed in anything else; even spiritually or symbolically?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Crucible said:
You're MADism is too vain for anyone who does not follow it to be 'lost'. You all don't even follow Paul, you follow your own gospel which is being a reprobate because everything else is a 'work' :rolleyes:
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1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. In order to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV we 1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

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heir said:
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV

Our gospel, as in "the glorious gospel of Christ" is hid from you as you heard it preached, believe not and because of your unbelief are blinded by the god of this world.
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The sad thing is, Crucible exposes the fact that he isn't a member of The Body of Christ, by his words alone. I have placed him on "permanent Ignore." I can still see his posts once in awhile in some else's post area, though.
 
S

SimpleMan77

New member
Lighthouse said:
  1. It is not explicit that it is referring to the same situation; you have inferred it, though it is not even implied.
  2. Even if you are correct in this you have assumed that the man was saved prior to his fornication, and there is no evidence at all that you can even attempt to point to to support that idea. There is neither indication, nor implication that the man was saved before fornicating with his stepmother.
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  1. You're wrong. Paul refers to this as the Corinthians judging those that are "within", and says that he is not telling them to disfellowship worldly fornicators, only if someone who is "called a brother" be a fornicator.

    In the next epistle, he refers back to his previous letter and the situation he dealt with. This is the only situation that is in the letter.

    I'm not implying anything. Telling about a "brother" who is "within", and needs to stop fornicating "so he can be saved" is pretty explicit.


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heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
SimpleMan77 said:
You're wrong. Paul refers to this as the Corinthians judging those that are "within", and says that he is not telling them to disfellowship worldly fornicators, only if someone who is "called a brother" be a fornicator.

In the next epistle, he refers back to his previous letter and the situation he dealt with. This is the only situation that is in the letter.

I'm not implying anything. Telling about a "brother" who is "within", and needs to stop fornicating "so he can be saved" is pretty explicit.


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There were a lot of men assembled in Corinth that were not saved. You are ignoring the facts of the gospel of our salvation which are:

1. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel "by which also ye are saved"

2. the gospel of Christ (cited above) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV)

3. Our salvation is by grace through faith/not of works/not of ourselves (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV)

Paul would not have contradicted himself by referring to what someone does as salvation/or loss thereof when he preached the above!
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
heir said:
There were a lot of men assembled in Corinth that were not saved. You are ignoring the facts of the gospel of our salvation which are:

1. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel "by which also ye are saved"

2. the gospel of Christ (cited above) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV)

3. Our salvation is by grace through faith/not of works/not of ourselves (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV)

Paul would not have contradicted himself by referring to what someone does as salvation/or loss thereof when he preached the above!
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Where on earth do you support your first line?

"If we deny him, he will deny us." I Tim 2.
 
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SimpleMan77

New member
heir said:
There were a lot of men assembled in Corinth that were not saved. You are ignoring the facts of the gospel of our salvation which are:

1. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel "by which also ye are saved"

2. the gospel of Christ (cited above) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV)

3. Our salvation is by grace through faith/not of works/not of ourselves (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV)

Paul would not have contradicted himself by referring to what someone does as salvation/or loss thereof when he preached the above!
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You have to take all of Paul's teachings. You can't take a verse here and there and narrow your doctrine to only believe those things.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
This is clear and unambiguous. "Shall not inherit" doesn't leave any room for misinterpretation.
He reinforces that by reminding them that this is who they were before they got saved. There is a direct connection between being "unsaved", and "unrighteous". To go back to unrighteousness is to go back to being unsaved, surrendering their "sonship".
It's why Paul states in Romans 8 that only those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God


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Crucible

Crucible

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Heir starts spewing cliches when she's ran out of anything better. Grosnick cosigns with the usual nonsense :rolleyes:
 
heir

heir

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Interplanner said:
Where on earth do you support your first line?
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There was a mixed bag of people at Corinth: some who had been saved by Paul's gospel declared in verses 1-4, some of the church of God (1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV), some who believe not in the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:12 KJV), and even one like Apollos knowing only the baptism of John (Acts 18:25 KJV).
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
SimpleMan77 said:
You have to take all of Paul's teachings. You can't take a verse here and there and narrow your doctrine to only believe those things.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
This is clear and unambiguous. "Shall not inherit" doesn't leave any room for misinterpretation.
He reinforces that by reminding them that this is who they were before they got saved. There is a direct connection between being "unsaved", and "unrighteous". To go back to unrighteousness is to go back to being unsaved, surrendering their "sonship".
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Those who have the righteousness of God upon them cannot "go back" to being "unrighteous" anymore than they can be uncrucified, unburied, unrisen, unsealed! So how do you get the righteousness of God upon you?
It's why Paul states in Romans 8 that only those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God
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All who are saved are in the Spirit. You need to take your own advice.

SimpleMan77 said:
You have to take all of Paul's teachings. You can't take a verse here and there and narrow your doctrine to only believe those things.
Click to expand...
 
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