How the Gospel Works

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
How the gospel works:

After obedience—what?

"And straightway He constrained His disciples to get into the ship, and to go to the other side."… Mark 6:45–52.

We are apt to imagine that if Jesus Christ constrains us, and we obey Him, He will lead us to great success. We must never put our dreams of success as God’s purpose for us; His purpose may be exactly the opposite. We have an idea that God is leading us to a particular end, a desired goal; He is not. The question of getting to a particular end is a mere incident. What we call the process, God calls the end.

What is my dream of God’s purpose? His purpose is that I depend on Him and on His power now. If I can stay in the middle of the turmoil calm and unperplexed, that is the end of the purpose of God. God is not working towards a particular finish; His end is the process—that I see Him walking on the waves, no shore in sight, no success, no goal, just the absolute certainty that it is all right because I see Him walking on the sea. It is the process, not the end, which is glorifying to God.

God’s training is for now, not presently. His purpose is for this minute, not for something in the future. We have nothing to do with the afterwards of obedience; we get wrong when we think of the afterwards. What men call training and preparation, God calls the end.

God’s end is to enable me to see that He can walk on the chaos of my life just now. If we have a further end in view, we do not pay sufficient attention to the immediate present; but if we realize that obedience is the end, then each moment as it comes is precious.

Oswald Chambers
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Redemption is the second covenant revealed as new foundation upon which man can now have an "internal" intimate relationship with God by the added benefit of God's grace being the result of a man whole heartedly loving God.

Adam had no advocater to plead his case with God in that regard which left God dealing with his creation purely from the outside Himself; i.e, His written "Law", whereas, the born again Christian now does and with Flesh and Bone on it. This must be understood to be something that takes place AFTER one's salvation is made real and evidenced by his further seeking to love God per the great commandment which will reveal his new disposition in Christ.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
How 'bout offering your opinion to post #611, that ol' Evil-Eye apparently feels he can't handle? . . :)
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I've attempted to sort out what you have been talking about, and it seems to me you're focusing on how we are being conformed into the image of the Son. What is it that draws us closer to Him while dealing with all the distractions this world can bring. "Yea, thought I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil..." What is there to do but trust?

I'm probably over-simplifying what you are getting at, and if so, please disregard....
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
glorydaz said:
I've attempted to sort out what you have been talking about, and it seems to me you're focusing on how we are being conformed into the image of the Son. What is it that draws us closer to Him while dealing with all the distractions this world can bring. "Yea, thought I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil..." What is there to do but trust?

I'm probably over-simplifying what you are getting at, and if so, please disregard....
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No, you are not over simplifying anything. We are saved and justified by faith and by faith alone. It is the religious that want to complicate things. Paul said that the Gospel is a simple message, 2 Corinthians 11:3. It is so simple that many are offended by it.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Robert Pate said:
No, you are not over simplifying anything. We are saved and justified by faith and by faith alone. It is the religious that want to complicate things. Paul said that the Gospel is a simple message, 2 Corinthians 11:3. It is so simple that many are offended by it.
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Interesting. I didn't know that. Thank you. However, why do you still go to church? What is the message you hear when you go that you believe you need to hear?
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Yeah, but as I have long observed in far too many a Believer - get your doctrine from an over reliance on the reasonings of men in their ever endless writings of books "about," and what you wind up comparing is not so much Scripture with Scripture, but the reasoning of men in their endless writings and traditions.
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I think this generally backwards: most men have written books 'after' and according to their years of scripture reading.

When I first became a Believer, I found that over reliance really odd.
People of A Book ever spouting books "about."
I still find that odd.
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I generally suggest reading the N.T. 7 times and afterwards reading the whole Bible twice. I didn't read a lot of books.

Kind of like watching a documentary, say "about" beach sand - in contrast to simply going down to the beach, taking off one's shoes, and walking in the sand.
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Or 'about' walking with the Lord Jesus instead of walking with Him? :think:

I read a book on skiing right before skiing. It was a good idea, because I was up and skiing immediately.

I tend to think reading those scriptures are more important, but I'm not as opposed to companion books, for instance. Anymore, many bibles have a lot of helps in them and I think them helpful, not a hindrance. I am somewhat on page as far as "scripture-first" theology, but I do think those other books are helpful and also believe most theology is not spun on a dime, it is always someone's summation of their biblical understanding, nearly always by an individual.

A Scripture or two?

Fair enough.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11, 12.
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A scripture is good, but lest we post as meaningless as Sqeeky, context and explaining those passages is often important. Some of them, like here, can stand alone.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Cross Reference said:
Interesting. I didn't know that. Thank you. However, why do you still go to church? What is the message you hear when you go that you believe you need to hear?
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I have not been in a church for about 20 years. The ones that I went to did not like me and wanted me to leave. I was the cause of much contention. All that I need to hear and believe is in my Bible.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Robert Pate said:
No, you are not over simplifying anything. We are saved and justified by faith and by faith alone. It is the religious that want to complicate things. Paul said that the Gospel is a simple message, 2 Corinthians 11:3. It is so simple that many are offended by it.
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I take it your sins, past, present and future are all forgiven. Is that about right?
 
J

jsanford108

New member
Robert Pate said:
I have not been in a church for about 20 years. The ones that I went to did not like me and wanted me to leave. I was the cause of much contention. All that I need to hear and believe is in my Bible.
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Hello Pate. It has been awhile since we sparred. How are you?

I noticed that you mentioned leaving in another thread. I sincerely hope you do not, as it is always entertaining in some degree to read what you write.

Having said that, I would like to ask a question in regard to the above quotation.

You say "all I need to hear and Believe is in my Bible." You mentioned you have not been in a church for 20 years.

1.) Are you observing the Sabbath and keeping it Holy?
2.) If so, how?
3.) a. Where in your Bible does it tell you to abstain from church and religion?
b. If all you need is your Bible, how do you know it is the Truth? Meaning, how do you know that it is truly the inerrant Word of the Living God?

I know these points will lead us off topic, so if you wish to address these points via a Pate Thread, that is fine. I think that each point leads back to the third, being a question of proof.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
D

Danoh

New member
Lon said:
I think this generally backwards: most men have written books 'after' and according to their years of scripture reading.


I generally suggest reading the N.T. 7 times and afterwards reading the whole Bible twice. I didn't read a lot of books.

Or 'about' walking with the Lord Jesus instead of walking with Him? :think:

I read a book on skiing right before skiing. It was a good idea, because I was up and skiing immediately.

I tend to think reading those scriptures are more important, but I'm not as opposed to companion books, for instance. Anymore, many bibles have a lot of helps in them and I think them helpful, not a hindrance. I am somewhat on page as far as "scripture-first" theology, but I do think those other books are helpful and also believe most theology is not spun on a dime, it is always someone's summation of their biblical understanding, nearly always by an individual.


A scripture is good, but lest we post as meaningless as Sqeeky, context and explaining those passages is often important. Some of them, like here, can stand alone.
Click to expand...

My point has ALWAYS been, not against a reliance on books "about" rather, the OVER RELIANCE on books "about" that many far too often demonstrate in their reasoning.

I have often pointed out this distinction - to no avail - to the very people who respond to what they have obviously read INTO what I have meant, no matter how often I have stressed the difference between those two.

That such continue to miss this distinction in my point, only reveals how used to another's labor such are in their reasoning.

The very "disability" an OVER RELIANCE on books "about" ends far too many at.

Fact of the matter is: and my wording shows it; I am very well-read myself - in many, many areas of life.

But there is a difference between being well read in books "about" and what I have far too often observed within "Christianity" - the many well-entrenched in their books "about."

There is often no reasoning with such, should such even get where one is coming from, to begin with.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Rom. 5:8
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Danoh said:
My point has ALWAYS been, not against a reliance on books "about" rather, the OVER RELIANCE on books "about" that many far too often demonstrate in their reasoning.

I have often pointed out this distinction - to no avail - to the very people who respond to what they have obviously read INTO what I have meant, no matter how often I have stressed the difference between those two.

That such continue to miss this distinction in my point, only reveals how used to another's labor such are in their reasoning.

The very "disability" an OVER RELIANCE on books "about" ends far too many at.

Fact of the matter is: and my wording shows it; I am very well-read myself - in many, many areas of life.

But there is a difference between being well read in books "about" and what I have far too often observed within "Christianity" - the many well-entrenched in their books "about."
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Perhaps for the overt tenor of initial posts. I too have seen overt dedication to books over scripture. Realize too, on TOL, there are a good many "just me and my Bible" that really aren't well-read or even well studied in scriptures for that matter.

Danoh said:
There is often no reasoning with such, should such even get where one is coming from, to begin with.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Rom. 5:8
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It is a good point but because TOL has more than a fair share of those who aren't well-read and disdain a seminary education :noway: I think you are always going to have to either prequel your posts over the matter or will have to proceed to damage control afterwards. Oddly, many would recommend 'their' books to you but then accuse you when you recommend yours :think: (not you, just more on the subject). -Lon
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Danoh said:
My point has ALWAYS been, not against a reliance on books "about" rather, the OVER RELIANCE on books "about" that many far too often demonstrate in their reasoning.

I have often pointed out this distinction - to no avail - to the very people who respond to what they have obviously read INTO what I have meant, no matter how often I have stressed the difference between those two.

That such continue to miss this distinction in my point, only reveals how used to another's labor such are in their reasoning.

The very "disability" an OVER RELIANCE on books "about" ends far too many at.

Fact of the matter is: and my wording shows it; I am very well-read myself - in many, many areas of life.

But there is a difference between being well read in books "about" and what I have far too often observed within "Christianity" - the many well-entrenched in their books "about."

There is often no reasoning with such, should such even get where one is coming from, to begin with.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Rom. 5:8
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Why then have you allowed your book learning to determine your reasons for disagreeing with me? Why not take a scriptural approach and ask questions for understanding rather than reading only to rebut? Show me where I am wrong if you believe me to be wrong? Please do do so but do with without your "book learned conclusions" to get in the way. OMT: Be couragous and reply to offered up scripture that, if allowed, might rectify your thinking. . . . OK?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
jsanford108 said:
Hello Pate. It has been awhile since we sparred. How are you?

I noticed that you mentioned leaving in another thread. I sincerely hope you do not, as it is always entertaining in some degree to read what you write.

Having said that, I would like to ask a question in regard to the above quotation.

You say "all I need to hear and Believe is in my Bible." You mentioned you have not been in a church for 20 years.

1.) Are you observing the Sabbath and keeping it Holy?
2.) If so, how?
3.) a. Where in your Bible does it tell you to abstain from church and religion?
b. If all you need is your Bible, how do you know it is the Truth? Meaning, how do you know that it is truly the inerrant Word of the Living God?

I know these points will lead us off topic, so if you wish to address these points via a Pate Thread, that is fine. I think that each point leads back to the third, being a question of proof.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
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The purpose of the Bible is to reveal Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is not a Christian Torah.

I don't live by laws, rules or religion. I am not under the law, nor am I subject to it. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by laws, rules and religion is NOT living by faith. What I just wrote is probably beyond your comprehension because you are in bondage to the law and religion.
 
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