How the Gospel Refutes Calvinism, Catholicism All Religions

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I have the word of God, which is the Gospel. According to the Gospel you are not saved.

So, I am a little confused. I have a couple of questions for you Robert:

You said:

Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners, Matthew 9:13.

This is how it works.

The sinner hears and believes the Gospel, Romans 10:17. At that moment he receives the Holy Spirit and is born again, Galatians 3:2, also 1 Peter 1:23. God now sees the born again sinner as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus has done is now his. In Jesus Christ he has been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

And now you say that according to that Gospel, God's Truth is not saved.

1. How do you know God's Truth hasn't heard and believed the Gospel?
2. How do you know God's Truth hasn't received the Holy Spirit and been born again?
3. How do you know God doesn't see God's Truth as complete in Christ?
4. How do you know that all that Jesus is and all that Jesus has done is not God's Truth's?
5. How do you know that God's Truth has not been justified, sanctified, and redeemed?

It looks to me like only God can know those things for certain.

You can't.

So how can you claim that God's Truth isn't saved?

Peace.

 

[Epoisses]

Hmmm. Well, it is my understanding that even in the strictest Calvinist predestination way of thinking....that man's free will is left intact and that nobody is "stuck with the results".

If God chooses someone and they are stuck with the results....is "faith alone" (from our earlier conversation) even necessary?

Just curious.

Peace.

In Christianity the person you are born into this world as, has to die and then you are reborn a new creation in Christ. Until this happens all you works, efforts, choices and decisions are worthless dung in the eyes of God. Every so-called Christian needs to ask themselves one question - have I been truly converted or born-again in Christ? This is the difference between life and death, saved and lost, heaven and hell.

 

[God's Truth]

So, I am a little confused. I have a couple of questions for you Robert:

You said:



And now you say that according to that Gospel, God's Truth is not saved.

1. How do you know God's Truth hasn't heard and believed the Gospel?
2. How do you know God's Truth hasn't received the Holy Spirit and been born again?
3. How do you know God doesn't see God's Truth as complete in Christ?
4. How do you know that all that Jesus is and all that Jesus has done is not God's Truth's?
5. How do you know that God's Truth has not been justified, sanctified, and redeemed?

It looks to me like only God can know those things for certain.

You can't.

So how can you claim that God's Truth isn't saved?

Peace.

Most enjoyable to read this, on so many levels.

 

[God's Truth]

In Christianity the person you are born into this world as, has to die and then you are reborn a new creation in Christ. Until this happens all you works, efforts, choices and decisions are worthless dung in the eyes of God. Every so-called Christian needs to ask themselves one question - have I been truly converted or born-again in Christ? This is the difference between life and death, saved and lost, heaven and hell.

If you have to ask yourself, then you probably are not.

Dung? Never is it dung to obey God.

You have an understanding problem.

 

[Epoisses]

If you have to ask yourself, then you probably are not.

Dung? Never is it dung to obey God.

You have an understanding problem.

You obey your carnal mind, not God.

 

[jsanford108]

In Christianity the person you are born into this world as, has to die and then you are reborn a new creation in Christ. Until this happens all you works, efforts, choices and decisions are worthless dung in the eyes of God. Every so-called Christian needs to ask themselves one question - have I been truly converted or born-again in Christ? This is the difference between life and death, saved and lost, heaven and hell.

Not to intrude, but your point lacks logic and is contradictory to itself.

"All your works, efforts, choices and decisions are worthless dung in the eyes of God." Yet, "have I been truly converted or born again-in Christ" is a choice/decision. By your former claim, then such a decision is worthless on an eternal scale ("scale" not being a balancing scale).

So either works, choices, decisions, etc. do matter or they don't. Such dichotomy present in your statement is paradoxical.


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[Robert Pate]

Not to intrude, but your point lacks logic and is contradictory to itself.

"All your works, efforts, choices and decisions are worthless dung in the eyes of God." Yet, "have I been truly converted or born again-in Christ" is a choice/decision. By your former claim, then such a decision is worthless on an eternal scale ("scale" not being a balancing scale).

So either works, choices, decisions, etc. do matter or they don't. Such dichotomy present in your statement is paradoxical.


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You would not understand what it means to be born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23, because you have never been there.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

You would not understand what it means to be born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23, because you have never been there.

Oh goodness gracious, Robert. Not again.

How do you know jsanford108 hasn't been "born again"?

Is it just if somebody doesn't agree with you about everything that you believe? Is that it?

C'mon.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

In Christianity the person you are born into this world as, has to die and then you are reborn a new creation in Christ.

Amen! :thumb:

Until this happens all you works, efforts, choices and decisions are worthless dung in the eyes of God.

Not sure I agree with that but I do have a question:

If this is true from your earlier post:

... Under the new covenant God chooses and you are stuck with the results.

Then why would anyone need to the following?:

Every so-called Christian needs to ask themselves one question - have I been truly converted or born-again in Christ? This is the difference between life and death, saved and lost, heaven and hell.

Peace.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You would not understand what it means to be born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23, because you have never been there.

Romans 14:10 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.​

 

[Robert Pate]

Romans 14:10 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.​

John encourages us to try the Spirits to see if they are of God, 1 John 4:1.

 

[God's Truth]

John encourages us to try the Spirits to see if they are of God, 1 John 4:1.

And you fail when you speak against obeying Jesus.

 

[Robert Pate]

And you fail when you speak against obeying Jesus.

You cannot hear God's word, so you remain in darkness.

 

[Robert Pate]

Romans 14:10 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.​

I don't consider Gt to be a sister in Christ.

 

[JudgeRightly]

:chuckle:


I knew that I think. We have the righteousness of Christ Romans 5:1 KJV -

But we do still sin, don't we?

We still sin, yes, but we are not "sinners." before we were saved, sinner described who we are. After we were saved, we are no longer sinners, but saints. Our nature is no longer that of sinner, but that of saint. We still sin, but that's not who we are.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Please, if you will, provide a verse where the phrase "faith alone" appears in the Scriptures.


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Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[JudgeRightly]

Let me ask you a quick question.

Can a person obtain salvation without having their sins forgiven?

Peace.

Yes.

 

[JudgeRightly]

And faith without works is dead (James 2).


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Who was James writing to, J?

 

[Tambora]

Who was James writing to, J?

Maybe he skipped past .....

James 1:1 KJV
(1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Now name calling? How Christian.

Christ called people names when appropriate.

Your statement of "Christians are justified by faith alone in Christ alone," absent of Scriptural evidence, and contrary to what is found in Scripture demonstrates a knowledge that your doctrine is wanting.

"Curse God and die" and "he went and hanged himself" and "go and do likewise" are in the Bible, but that doesn't mean we should.

The phrase "by faith alone" may not be in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that the concept is not there.