How the Gospel Refutes Calvinism, All Religions
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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beloved57
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Sonnet
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I'm not boasting and you didn't answer the question.
Sonnet
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Abraham did - and Moses - and many others.
Paul explicitly taught that belief was possible.
Sonnet
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Already dealt with that and you didn't refute it.
Sonnet
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Romans 4:1-5
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 9:30-32
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Romans 10:1
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Galatians 3:10-13
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
beloved57
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It has not changed. Jesus statement makes Faith a work of the law.
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beloved57
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Paul never said that Faith is not a work of the law, you quoted all that scripture for nothing.
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Sonnet
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Sonnet
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Galatians 3:12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
Is the law based on faith or not?
beloved57
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I m not here to talk about that. My point is that Jesus Christ said Faith is a work of the law Matt 23:23 !
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beloved57
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Faith is a work of the law that ought to be done Matt 23:23 !
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Sonnet
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It's a simple question. If you wont answer it then you aren't refuting the point I and others have been making.
Faithfulness is distinguished from saving faith. You aren't cross referencing other scriptures that clarify Matthew 23:23
Sonnet
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You didn't answer the question:
Galatians 3:12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
Is the law based on faith or not?
The reason why the 'faithfulness' of Mat 23:23 is not saving faith has already been explained to you. You have not refuted it.
beloved57
Well-known member
Does that verse say that Faith is not a work of the law like Jesus said it was?
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Sonnet
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It says the law is not based on faith. It is a clear distinction.
If faith is a work then Paul erred in Romans 4:1-5. If you can exegete those verses and prove that faith is a work then I would be very interested to see how.
Please, go ahead and do so.
beloved57
Well-known member
Did I say that the law was based on Faith?
Well blow me down. What happened to God's predestination ?
Sonnet
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No, but you are averring that faith is a work of the law.
Okay, let's assume that you are correct in your interpretation of Matthew 23:23 - that faith is a work. Please exegete Romans 4:1-5, using your definition of faith, and see if you can maintain your position.
I would be very interested to see your response.
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save ...
biblehub.com/luke/19-10.htm
For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost."