Shifting the attention off of yourself does not answer my question.
Do you reject Romans 11?
ECT How is Paul's message different?
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
Shifting the attention off of yourself does not answer my question.
Do you reject Romans 11?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I told you what the Jews who lived under the law were saved from but since it is in the Bible so you refuse to believe it. Here is what the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law:
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).
The Lord is not speaking of dying physically because believers die. The "death" which these Jewish believers will never experience is the one here:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev.21:8).
The Jewish believers who lived under the law were saved from the second death.
So now answer my question.
Could the Jews who lived under the law be saved apart from works?
Made up-you are not the believing remnant of the nation Israel, thief, robber, even though you are a nominee, by your daddy, the devil, Basil, for "Best Supporting Actor In A Demonic Role" posing, acting, like you are the nation Israel.
Romans 11 KJV
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
You are not "them," verse 27, thief, actor, charlatan, con artist.
And stuff your "You haven't done proper exegesis" crafty, subtil(Genesis 3 KJV) dismissal, which is an oh so alleged "scholarly" spam, that makes you sound like some "great one," Acts 8 sorcerer Basil Simon,even though you just GOOG it, and thought, "This ought to woo the audience," that can be satanically employed, on any thread, topic, question re. verse(s), that says NADA.
musterion
Well-known member
First balance that with Hebrews ch. 6 and 10, which I cited earlier. Throw in Mark 16:16 while you're at it.
You're a troll or a robot.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That doesn't answer my question! You asked in what way were the Jewish believers saved and I answered you by saying that they were saved from the second death.
And again you refuse to answer my question.
Ding, ding ,ding......A record!!! That is the 666th time he has said that, on TOL, in the last year,and has now spammed it to every TOL member!!!!!!
Congrats, John 3 Nicky!!!
musterion
Well-known member
YOUR QUESTION IS FLAWED.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Your mind is flawed because you can't understand the most simple things found in the Scriptures! Either that or you just flat out refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law here:
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).
Those in the Neo-MAD camp say that they can indeed die!
Those in the Neo-MAD camp say that they believe the Lord Jesus as long as what He says doesn't contradict their ideas! Then all bets are off!
One of the confused old man, bible corrector/blender's other stumpers, debate enders, that he spams on every 4th post:
"You can't understand the most simple things found in the Scriptures! Either that or you just flat out refuse to believe....................................................................................."
Come on, John 3 Nicky. Give us another "You can't understand the most simple things found in the Scriptures! Don't you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says here? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says here? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?"
Please, teach us, Nicky. Please?
How about your slam dunk closer:
Don't you believe the bible?
Puh-leaze, Elmer Fud, Jr.?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Bible teaches that the Jewish believers enjoyed eternal security.
But that truth is way above the understanding of those in the Neo-MAD camp.
They prefer the teaching found in their Neo-MAD Handbook over what the Scriptures actually teach.
musterion
Well-known member
As far back as Moses?
Another one of John 3 Nicky's "slam dunk" debate enders!!! Wow, Nicky!!! Thanks!!
One of the confused old man, bible corrector/blender's other stumpers, debate enders, that he spams on every 4th post:
"You can't understand the most simple things found in the Scriptures! Either that or you just flat out refuse to believe........................................... .........................................."
Come on, John 3 Nicky. Give us another "You can't understand the most simple things found in the Scriptures! Don't you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says here? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says here? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?"
Please, teach us, Nicky. Please?
How about your slam dunk closer:
Don't you believe the bible?
Puh-leaze, Elmer Fud, Jr.?
Nicky Shugart prefers the teaching found in his Acts 2-Replacement "Theology"/Preterism bible blender handbook, instead of what the scriptures actually teach.
Watch this, Nicky Shugart:
Why do you prefer the teaching found in his Acts 2-Replacement "Theology"/Preterism bible blender handbook, instead of what the scriptures actually teach?
Why don't you you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?
We see that you have no answer.
Why do you prefer the teaching found in his Acts 2-Replacement "Theology"/Preterism bible blender handbook, instead of what the scriptures actually teach?
Why don't you you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?
We see that you have no answer.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I have given evidence from the Scriptures which demonstrate that the present dispensation began when Paul first began to preach the gospel of grace to the Gentiles. That happened at Acts 13.
You have not yet given any evidence that the present dispensation began at Acts 28.
We see, and there is no doubt whatsoever, that John 3 Nicky Shugart, the bible corrector/agnostic/mystic/blender, Acts 2 Reppy/Preterist, "it all says the same thing" proponent, has no answer to:
Why do you prefer the teaching found in his Acts 2-Replacement "Theology"/Preterism bible blender handbook, instead of what the scriptures actually teach?
Why don't you you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?
Why do you prefer the teaching found in his Acts 2-Replacement "Theology"/Preterism bible blender handbook, instead of what the scriptures actually teach?
Why don't you you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?
It's as much for my own benefit as it is his. I've been a bit out of practice on the topic.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
All believers down through history have enjoyed eternal security.
Paul used David, who lived under the law, as an example to teach this truth:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).
No, you have not; you've run and hide.
We see, and there is no doubt whatsoever, that John 3 Nicky Shugart, the bible corrector/agnostic/mystic/blender, Acts 2 Reppy/Preterist, "it all says the same thing" proponent, has no answer to:
Why do you prefer the teaching found in his Acts 2-Replacement "Theology"/Preterism bible blender handbook, instead of what the scriptures actually teach?
Why don't you you believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Why do you refuse to believe what God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter says? Who should we believe:you, or God/the scriptures/the Lord Jesus/Paul/Peter?
=assert/pound the podium/declare victory, return to spam echo chamber
Show us, chapter, verse, where we are to debate bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, such as yourself.
You have not yet given any evidence that:
-the present dispensation began at Acts 2
-Paul is just a two-bit flunky
-all of Hebrews-Revelation, including its doctrine, apply to the boc, and that "the second time"/second coming=the rapture
-that "it all says the same thing"
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What about the Lord Jesus' words here which were spoken to the Jews who lived under the Law?:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since you teach that the Jews who lived under the Law could lose their salvation then I am sure you must have an answer to what the Lord Jesus said to them here:
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).
The Lord is not speaking of dying physically because believers die that way. The "death" which these Jewish believers will never experience is the one here:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev.21:8).
The Jewish believers who lived under the law were saved from the second death.