ECT How is Paul's message different?

[lifeisgood]

Boy you're a cranky one.

Don’t mean to be, but you have no idea about my day today.

My point was that there is a ONE-to-ONE relationship between the apostles that will judge Israel and the tribes. It's not a problem for me. It's an observation that the Lord Jesus told them that they would be judging Israel (12 on 12).

Never said otherwise.

Because that's the way that the Lord Jesus Christ instructed them. Israel was to be a nation of priests to the rest of the world.

So Peter was disobedient to the Lord’s way and ate and preached to Gentiles and he was not supposed to?

Firstly, the term "Great Commission" is another classic example of "Churchianity".

It is just a term, Right Divider to summarize what the Lord told the Disciples to do. Nothing more nothing less. No big deal.

Secondly, He gave that commission ONLY to the eleven!
Mat 28:16-20 KJV Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. (17) And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Which in turn gave the instructions to the more than the 12.
The 12 were the leaders of the more than 12.
First there was one, then 3, then 12, then 70, then 120, etc.

And in the inner circle of the 12, there was always the three.

So, I do not see any problems with what the Lord said to the 11, which they in turn gave to the others and if they didn’t no wonder they were in trouble. Imagine only 11 going to all Israel and then to all the nations of the world.

Nah! There were more than 11.

Once again, Jesus told THEM this. And this included (per "teach them to obey ALL things I have commanded"), the law of Moses.
Mat 23:1-3 KJV Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

The scribes and the Pharisees proclaimed themselves to be the interpreters of the Law of Moses for the people.

Observe the correct interpretation of the Scriptures, and not their glosses.

“…but do NOT ye after their works: for they say, and DO NOT.” They do not practice what they preach to the people.

Paul taught many things that God revealed to him. Many of these things were not revealed before. This is one of the reasons that Paul stresses his apostleship and the DIRECT revelations from God.

Agreed.

Paul is the PATTERN for today:
1Ti 1:16 KJV Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
PATTERN and HEREAFTER are just too clear to miss, but far too many do anyway.

I have always seen Paul as the pattern to follow today.

 

[lifeisgood]

I say Jesus. You said "Cross" and meant, em...Jesus.

Whoo hoo. We on the same page. Don't say "Cross" no more and so then...we on the same page, brother.

No we're not on the same page.

If you only have Jesus, you have an incomplete Jesus.

You can never separate Jesus from the Cross or the Cross from Jesus.

One without the other does not bring Salvation to no one.

 

[Right Divider]

Don’t mean to be, but you have no idea about my day today.

Sorry to heard that you're having a bad day.

Never said otherwise.

Alright.

So Peter was disobedient to the Lord’s way and ate and preached to Gentiles and he was not supposed to?

Where do you get that?

If you look at ALL of the accounts of what Jesus taught them, it's clear that they were to get Israel to repent first.... before anything could go world-wide.

It is just a term, Right Divider to summarize what the Lord told the Disciples to do. Nothing more nothing less. No big deal.

I would say otherwise. Terming it the "Great Commission" makes sound much different than it really was. What about the other commissions; were they not "great". Like the commission in Matthew 10:5ff?

Mat 10:5-6 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

Or the ones described in Act 9, 13, 22 & 26?

Which in turn gave the instructions to the more than the 12.
The 12 were the leaders of the more than 12.
First there was one, then 3, then 12, then 70, then 120, etc.

And in the inner circle of the 12, there was always the three.

There were 12 tribes in Israel and the 12 were to sit on 12 thrones judging them. Do you think that this has been called off? Are there now 3, 70, 120, etc thrones? No, there are 12... like the tribes of Israel.

So, I do not see any problems with what the Lord said to the 11, which they in turn gave to the others and if they didn’t no wonder they were in trouble. Imagine only 11 going to all Israel and then to all the nations of the world.

Nah! There were more than 11.

I guess that you still don't understand what the nation of Israel was supposed to be to the rest of the world.

Act 13:47 KJV For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.​

This is quote from Isaiah about Israel.

Isa 60:1-3 KJV Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. (2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. (3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.​

And yet, at that time, Israel fell instead. Someday they will be restored.

Rom 11:11-15 KJV I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (12) Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. (15) For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?​

The scribes and the Pharisees proclaimed themselves to be the interpreters of the Law of Moses for the people.

Observe the correct interpretation of the Scriptures, and not their glosses.

“…but do NOT ye after their works: for they say, and DO NOT.” They do not practice what they preach to the people.

This is irrelevant, the part that IS relevant is: that they sat in Moses' seat and were to be obeyed when the taught the law of Moses. You can't just throw that out because of the other.

Mat 23:1-3 KJV Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
​

Obey the law of Moses but don't follow the works of the scribes and Pharisees. It's not hard to understand.

Agreed.

I have always seen Paul as the pattern to follow today.

And yet you mix in some "gospel of the kingdom" doctrine in with Paul's gospel and get some things very confused that way.

 

[turbosixx]

What does Paul say? He specifically mentions gradual revelation

This is what I'm not familiar with.

 

[lifeisgood]

Where do you get that?

If you look at ALL of the accounts of what Jesus taught them, it's clear that they were to get Israel to repent first.... before anything could go world-wide.

From what you said:

Because that's the way that the Lord Jesus Christ instructed them. Israel was to be a nation of priests to the rest of the world.

When I said:
Originally Posted by lifeisgood
And that is why PETER did not preach to any Gentile either, right?
And that is why PETER did not eat with any Gentiles either, right?

Which we would have to start from the beginning to see where it all started in this our conversation.

I would say otherwise. Terming it the "Great Commission" makes sound much different than it really was. What about the other commissions; were they not "great". Like the commission in Matthew 10:5ff?
Mat 10:5-6 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Or the ones described in Act 9, 13, 22 & 26?

For me the ‘great commission’ was different than the others because it is the one where Israel (Disciples) were to go to Israel AND to all other nations in the whole world.

Talk about different. It was the one where they had to do without Jesus being present.

You are entitled to disagree though.

There were 12 tribes in Israel and the 12 were to sit on 12 thrones judging them. Do you think that this has been called off? Are there now 3, 70, 120, etc thrones? No, there are 12... like the tribes of Israel.

Changed subject.

I was NOT talking about the ones who have been chosen to sit on thrones. I was simply stating that there were more than 12 Disciples, which there were. Within the inner circle of the 12 there were the three. Jesus sent 70 Disciples 2 by 2. There were 120 Disciples in the upper room waiting for the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Conclusion, there were more than the 12 Disciples.

And no, I do not believe that 12 Disciples will not sit on thrones, for God never changes His mind. What He has declared, He will fulfill; otherwise, He would stop being God.

I guess that you still don't understand what the nation of Israel was supposed to be to the rest of the world.

The way I understand it, the nation of Israel is supposed be the preachers to the whole world of Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

This is irrelevant, the part that IS relevant is: that they sat in Moses' seat and were to be obeyed when the taught the law of Moses. You can't just throw that out because of the other.
Mat 23:1-3 KJV Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Obey the law of Moses but don't follow the works of the scribes and Pharisees. It's not hard to understand.

When they taught the Law of Moses, which is the Law of God, CORRECTLY, they were to be obeyed, however, Jesus said, they did not practice what they demanded the people do, and should not be obeyed because of it.

You know how the saying goes, now days, ‘Do what I tell you, don’t do what I do,’ when you know that what is being demanded of you is not being practiced by the one demanding. You have to accept the whole verse or you have an incomplete understanding of what Jesus said.

For me the second part, the one you say is not that important, is the more important to me.

Hypocrites, I would say, Jesus called them many times and was constantly correcting them, to the point they hated Him so much they murdered Him.

And yet you mix in some "gospel of the kingdom" doctrine in with Paul's gospel and get some things very confused that way.

I don’t believe I do, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[lifeisgood]

This is what I'm not familiar with.

Paul did not understand all that he received from the Lord at one sitting.
Did Paul not say that he received numerous revelations to the point that an angel was sent to buffet him so that he did not think of himself more than he should? (Paraphrasing here.)

 

[Lazy afternoon]

What if they were supposed to complete it after the LORD returned?

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 10:23 (KJV)
You cannot escape it.

 

[Right Divider]

For me the ‘great commission’ was different than the others because it is the one where Israel (Disciples) were to go to Israel AND to all other nations in the whole world.

Talk about different. It was the one where they had to do without Jesus being present.

You are entitled to disagree though.

One of the most common problem that people have is that the read a single account of the "great commission" and do NOT put it together with the rest to get the full picture.

The 12 were to convert Israel first. Since that did not happen, why would they proceed? You think that Peter was somehow ignorant ('had to be hit over the head' ) or disobedient for not going to the Gentiles immediately.

Luk 24:47 KJV And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Act 1:8 KJV But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
​

This was all part of the gospel of the kingdom.

Peter (and the eleven) were doing exactly as they were told.

The way I understand it, the nation of Israel is supposed be the preachers to the whole world of Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Yes, starting at Jerusalem and preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

When they taught the Law of Moses, which is the Law of God, CORRECTLY, they were to be obeyed, however, Jesus said, they did not practice what they demanded the people do, and should not be obeyed because of it.

You know how the saying goes, now days, ‘Do what I tell you, don’t do what I do,’ when you know that what is being demanded of you is not being practiced by the one demanding. You have to accept the whole verse or you have an incomplete understanding of what Jesus said.

For me the second part, the one you say is not that important, is the more important to me.

The are BOTH important. They were told to keep the law of Moses.

Hypocrites, I would say, Jesus called them many times and was constantly correcting them, to the point they hated Him so much they murdered Him.

Once again, the second part does NOT negate the first part. The were told to keep the law of Moses.

I don’t believe I do, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Indeed you do. By claiming that there is only one "good news" you most certainly are.

 

[lifeisgood]

One of the most common problem that people have is that the read a single account of the "great commission" and do NOT put it together with the rest to get the full picture.

The 12 were to convert Israel first. Since that did not happen, why would they proceed? You think that Peter was somehow ignorant ('had to be hit over the head' ) or disobedient for not going to the Gentiles immediately.
Luk 24:47 KJV And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Act 1:8 KJV But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
This was all part of the gospel of the kingdom.

Peter (and the eleven) were doing exactly as they were told.

Yes, they were very comfortable sitting in Jerusalem, going to the Temple, doing the same things they always did, even though the Lord had told them to get their act together and move.

What? Were they waiting for all the babies in Israel to grow up and accept the Lord and then they would go to the next city across the pond?

Yes, starting at Jerusalem and preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

See this is what has gotten the BOC in deep trouble. Minutia. Minutia. Minutia.

Most saved Christians have no idea about minutia. But they know that they were saved by Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary, which is THE only good news.

If all of us in the BOC were to stop doing all this nonsense and preach EXCLUSIVELY Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary, the BOC would be producing all that the Lord said it would, salvation, healing, sanctification, new life, fallen brothers and sisters in Christ brought back to Him, etc., etc., etc.

But noooooooooooooooooo, let’s get into minutia game of Satan.

No, that's not what gospel mean, this is what gospel mean.
No, that's not what kingdom of God mean, this is what KOG means.
Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Oh, how happy Satan is. Indeed, he is very happy.

The are BOTH important. They were told to keep the law of Moses.

So did Paul say that the Law was good. So, what’s the beef?

Once again, the second part does NOT negate the first part. The were told to keep the law of Moses.

Never said it did.

But the Lord did UNEQUIVOCALY call the people to Him and said to the people don't do what they tell you do UNLESS they PRACTICE what they PREACH.

In my book they go together, you know, the preaching and the practice of it.

Now you are entitled to disagree.

Indeed you do. By claiming that there is only one "good news" you most

There is only ONE good news and that is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Even though the Bible says that are other news that are good.

You are entitled to disagree though.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, they were very comfortable sitting in Jerusalem, going to the Temple, doing the same things they always did, even though the Lord had told them to get their act together and move.

What? Were they waiting for all the babies in Israel to grow up and accept the Lord and then they would go to the next city across the pond?

LOL, it had nothing to do with their "comfort". It had to do with Israel's RESPONSE to their preaching. It is called REJECTION.

Act 8:1-3 KJV And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. (2) And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. (3) As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
​

I don't believe that they needed 100% acceptance, but a few thousand was not getting it done. So it was ACTUALLY the apostles that were being OBEDIENT to the Lord and attempting to convert "the people" in Jerusalem.

NOTE: Jerusalem is the CAPITAL of the kingdom. You can't very well have the kingdom without the capital.

See this is what has gotten the BOC in deep trouble. Minutia. Minutia. Minutia.

Most saved Christians have no idea about minutia. But they know that they were saved by Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary, which is THE only good news.

Nonsense. It's NOT "minutia" but the DETAILS in the Word of God.

There is MORE than ONE "good news" in the Bible.

The gospel of the grace of God is NOT the gospel of the kingdom.

If all of us in the BOC were to stop doing all this nonsense and preach EXCLUSIVELY Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary, the BOC would be producing all that the Lord said it would, salvation, healing, sanctification, new life, fallen brothers and sisters in Christ brought back to Him, etc., etc., etc.

But noooooooooooooooooo, let’s get into minutia game of Satan.

No, glossing over important DETAILS is the "game of Satan".

No, that's not what gospel mean, this is what gospel mean.
No, that's not what kingdom of God mean, this is what KOG means.
Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Oh, how happy Satan is. Indeed, he is very happy.

You're so confused that you believe that details are not import and we should just all sing a happy song that's all puppies and candy.

So did Paul say that the Law was good. So, what’s the beef?

He said that BOTH the law is good and that we are not under it. Got that?

Never said it did.

But the Lord did UNEQUIVOCALY call the people to Him and said to the people don't do what they tell you do UNLESS they PRACTICE what they PREACH.

In my book they go together, you know, the preaching and the practice of it.

Now you are entitled to disagree.

So do you believe that the body of Christ is under the law of Moses like them?

There is only ONE good news and that is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Even though the Bible says that are other news that are good.

You are entitled to disagree though.

So you're double-talking now: Is there or is there not "more than one good news"?

Yes, there is more than ONE gospel (good news) in the Bible.

 

[lifeisgood]

LOL, it had nothing to do with their "comfort". It had to do with Israel's RESPONSE to their preaching. It is called REJECTION.
Act 8:1-3 KJV And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. (2) And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. (3) As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
I don't believe that they needed 100% acceptance, but a few thousand was not getting it done. So it was ACTUALLY the apostles that were being OBEDIENT to the Lord and attempting to convert "the people" in Jerusalem.

:bang:

NOTE: Jerusalem is the CAPITAL of the kingdom. You can't very well have the kingdom without the capital.

:duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:

Nonsense. It's NOT "minutia" but the DETAILS in the Word of God.

There is MORE than ONE "good news" in the Bible.

The gospel of the grace of God is NOT the gospel of the kingdom.

You concentrate so much time on the minutia — The gospel of the grace of God is NOT the gospel of the kingdom — that Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary gets lost in the shuffle.

No, glossing over important DETAILS is the "game of Satan".

Oh, perfect one, explain to us doppy ones:
Do you concentrate on the minutia of knowing exactly — the difference between the gospel of grace of God is NOT the gospel of the kingdom — when the Lord places a lost soul in your path?

Or

Do you explain to that lost soul THE good news — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary?

You're so confused that you believe that details are not import and we should just all sing a happy song that's all puppies and candy.

You’re so confused that you believe that only the details are important and we should just all sing a happy song that’s all puppies and candy.

He said that BOTH the law is good and that we are not under it. Got that?

So what’s your beef?
Oh, yeah, the minutia, the minutia, the minutia.

So do you believe that the body of Christ is under the law of Moses like them?

What an offensive question.

Were we not speaking about what the Lord said to those in front of Him when He was still alive before His crucifixion?

So you're double-talking now: Is there or is there not "more than one good news"?

Yes, there is more than ONE gospel (good news) in the Bible.

Another offensive question.

There is only one THE good news; however, the Bible does speak of news that are good.

====

I have to ask your forgiveness; I keep on forgetting that you love to concentrate on the minutia without understanding the big picture.

 

[Right Divider]

:bang:

I guess that this means that you don't understand. Alright....

:duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:

So, by your response, I guess that you think that they should have just skipped it?

You concentrate so much time on the minutia — The gospel of the grace of God is NOT the gospel of the kingdom — that Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary gets lost in the shuffle.

ONCE AGAIN, the details of scripture are NOT minutia.

And NO they do NOT get lost in the shuffle.

Oh, perfect one, explain to us doppy ones:
Do you concentrate on the minutia of knowing exactly — the difference between the gospel of grace of God is NOT the gospel of the kingdom — when the Lord places a lost soul in your path?

Or

Do you explain to that lost soul THE good news — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary?

YOU are supposedly a BELIEVER, so your question is BOGUS. I'm trying to communicate with YOU and NOT some "example" lost soul.

You’re so confused that you believe that only the details are important and we should just all sing a happy song that’s all puppies and candy.

:yawn:

So what’s your beef?
Oh, yeah, the minutia, the minutia, the minutia.

Many, perhaps not you (but it seems like you from reading your previous posts), confused and mix the program that Jesus had given to the 12 (which included observing the law of Moses) with the doctrine that God gave to Paul for the body of Christ. This creates ALL kinds of confusion. That is my concern with the DIFFERENCE between the two.

What an offensive question.

Were we not speaking about what the Lord said to those in front of Him when He was still alive before His crucifixion?

Feel free to show us where the Lord Jesus Christ rescinded this command AFTER His crucifixion. NOTE: Matthew 28:16-20 is AFTER the cross.

Another offensive question.

There is only one THE good news; however, the Bible does speak of news that are good.

You are quite easily offended. This was YOU:

There is only ONE good news and that is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Even though the Bible says that are other news that are good.

You are entitled to disagree though.

Make up your mind.

====

I have to ask your forgiveness; I keep on forgetting that you love to concentrate on the minutia without understanding the big picture.

I understand the big picture just fine but you do not. You are confused.

The BIG picture is made up of ALL THE DETAILS put together!

 

[lifeisgood]

I guess that this means that you don't understand. Alright....

Talk about not understanding.

So, by your response, I guess that you think that they should have just skipped it?

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

ONCE AGAIN, the details of scripture are NOT minutia.

And NO they do NOT get lost in the shuffle.

When you look at a painting of Rembrandt, do you stay on the minutia or do you take a step back and wonder about the whole painting?

Yeah, I wonder if you will understand.

YOU are supposedly a BELIEVER, so your question is BOGUS. I'm trying to communicate with YOU and NOT some "example" lost soul.

And that is YOUR problem, oh, minutia one.

Many, perhaps not you (but it seems like you from reading your previous posts), confused and mix the program that Jesus had given to the 12 (which included observing the law of Moses) with the doctrine that God gave to Paul for the body of Christ. This creates ALL kinds of confusion. That is my concern with the DIFFERENCE between the two.

I do not confuse anything. There is ONE plan of God, maybe you have more than one, but God has only ONE.

What did Paul say, let me see, “For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings? What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe--as the Lord has assigned to each (Paul / Appollos) his task. I (Paul) planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.”

Therefore, I Paul, “didn't think it was a good idea to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.”

Why, Paul? Why?
Because the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Talk about UNDERSTANDING. Man, did Paul understand. Now, if only us which are saved understand also that there is only one thing that we must be engrossed in 'the power of God' which is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Now, you can take it whatever way you want.

Feel free to show us where the Lord Jesus Christ rescinded this command AFTER His crucifixion. NOTE: Matthew 28:16-20 is AFTER the cross.

Oh, foolish Galatians, I think Paul said.

Make up your mind.

My mind was made up a long time ago.

There is only one THE good news and that is JESUS CHRIST AND WHAT HE DID AT THE CROSS OF CALVARY, which is THE POWER OF GOD.

Even though there are other news that are good in the Bible.

I understand the big picture just fine but you do not. You are confused.

The BIG picture is made up of ALL THE DETAILS put together!

No! It is the other way around.
The BIG picture was ALREADY painted in the Master’s mind.

You don’t have time to enjoy the BIG picture that the Master has presented, because you’re so engrossed in the minutia.

You have the BIG picture, but no time to rest on it, because your time has been taken by the minutia.

Again, you can take it any way you want as you are entitled to your own understanding.

 

[Right Divider]

Talk about not understanding.

Ok, you don't understand.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Out of CONTEXT and not relevant to this discussion.

When you look at a painting of Rembrandt, do you stay on the minutia or do you take a step back and wonder about the whole painting?

Yeah, I wonder if you will understand.

What an absolutely terrible example.

And that is YOUR problem, oh, minutia one.

So my problem is that I understand differences? That's a good thing.

I do not confuse anything. There is ONE plan of God, maybe you have more than one, but God has only ONE.

Gods PLANS will eventually all come INTO ONE, but from the beginning He has always had PLANS.

Eph 1:9-12 KJV Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.​

What did Paul say, let me see, “For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings? What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe--as the Lord has assigned to each (Paul / Appollos) his task. I (Paul) planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.”

Yes, and Paul's answer to THIS division was:

1Co 11:1-2 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (2) Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.​

Therefore, I Paul, “didn't think it was a good idea to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.”

Why, Paul? Why?
Because the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Talk about UNDERSTANDING. Man, did Paul understand. Now, if only us which are saved understand also that there is only one thing that we must be engrossed in 'the power of God' which is Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Now, you can take it whatever way you want.

Oh, foolish Galatians, I think Paul said.

My mind was made up a long time ago.

There is only one THE good news and that is JESUS CHRIST AND WHAT HE DID AT THE CROSS OF CALVARY, which is THE POWER OF GOD.

Even though there are other news that are good in the Bible.

No! It is the other way around.
The BIG picture was ALREADY painted in the Master’s mind.

You don’t have time to enjoy the BIG picture that the Master has presented, because you’re so engrossed in the minutia.

You have the BIG picture, but no time to rest on it, because your time has been taken by the minutia.

Again, you can take it any way you want as you are entitled to your own understanding.

So I guess that, according to you, the Bible could have been a single sentence.

Personally, I enjoy ALL OF GOD's WORD. BIG picture AND all of the DETAILS. He wrote an ENTIRE BOOK, and not just a page or two.

 

[lifeisgood]

Ok, you don't understand.

As you wish, oh, minutia one.

Out of CONTEXT and not relevant to this discussion.

Totally in context from where I’m sitting.
Oh, shsus, I keep on forgetting you live on the minutia.

What an absolutely terrible example.

I guess you have never seen a Rembrandt in person.

So my problem is that I understand differences? That's a good thing.

No, no problems seeing differences.

Problem is when the differences becomes minutialized that the minutia cover the BIG picture.

Gods PLANS will eventually all come INTO ONE, but from the beginning He has always had PLANS.

Eph 1:9-12 KJV Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Oh, minutia one, please pray tell, did “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw, and was glad” (John 8:56) different from THE good news than the one we receive today?

Did not Abraham understand Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary? No?
Then, why did Jesus say that Abraham saw it and rejoiced?

C’mon, Right Divider, get into the BIG picture first.

You’re into the minutia of, to give you an example, ‘why do you, lifeisgood, use ‘Disciples’ instead of ‘disciples’ as if that has any relevance to the BIG picture.

Yes, and Paul's answer to THIS division was:
1Co 11:1-2 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (2) Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

The only thing that stands between dying, lost humanity, and eternal judgment, SO SAYS PAUL, is the Cross of Christ [1 Cor. 1:23; 2:2; Eph. 2:13–18; Col. 2:14–15] NO minutia there.

So I guess that, according to you, the Bible could have been a single sentence.

Oh, and what a sentence it is. It is an ENORMOUS sentence.

It can only be seen in the BIG, then bringing the interest of the viewer into focus by the preaching of that ONE SENTENCE, the viewer want to see more of that one sentence, and then the aha moment of that one sentence saving the sinner going straight to hell who was given the BIG picture so that he/she can rest on it.

Oh, yes, and what a sentence it is.

Paul saw that one sentence and it took him at least 14 epistles and he did not want to go with Jesus yet, because he did not feel he had been able to give us all that that ONE SENTENCE entails.

Personally, I enjoy ALL OF GOD's WORD. BIG picture AND all of the DETAILS. He wrote an ENTIRE BOOK, and not just a page or two.

But you, Right Divider, was saved by the BIG picture and then you went looking for the DETAILS of that BIG picture that saved you — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary --- so that you could understand the BIG sentence.

Do you not know, have you not read that Paul was the one who said that the whole of the BIG picture was summarized in one sentence? You should read Paul sometimes.

Now, you, Right Divider, want people to see the DETAILS and you forget to preach the BIG sentence.

Now, you, Right Divider are entitled to your own understanding.

 

[Interplanner]

The Eph 1:9-12 lines are about the present. That is the same mystery as 3:5; it is no longer a mystery. It is Judaism which thought there were different plans, acc. to Gal 3:17. It replaced and voided the Promise, which was the one consistent Biblical plan end to end.

Therefore what is no longer a mystery is that the Promised Gospel was the way the believers from the nations would be included, not the Law. This is 'not by the Law' as in so many of Paul's declarations.

 

[Right Divider]

As you wish, oh, minutia one.

Ah yes, brotherly name calling (for at least the third time).

Totally in context from where I’m sitting.
Oh, shsus, I keep on forgetting you live on the minutia.

Can't speak with substance, so name-call. Got it.

I guess you have never seen a Rembrandt in person.

I have not and do not care.

No, no problems seeing differences.

Problem is when the differences becomes minutialized that the minutia cover the BIG picture.

This is from the same guy that said that "there is ONE good new, but their are other news that are good". It's say that you are the one peddling minutia. Please start a complete thread on that topic. That would be very enlightening.

Oh, minutia one, please pray tell, did “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw, and was glad” (John 8:56) different from THE good news than the one we receive today?

Did not Abraham understand Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary? No?
Then, why did Jesus say that Abraham saw it and rejoiced?

Continued insults. I guess that it's difficult for a spirit filled believer, like yourself, to have a civil discussion without reverting to those tactics.

Maybe it has escaped your notice, but you just gave some DETAILS, which you call "minutia" when I do it. You are a hypocrite!

C’mon, Right Divider, get into the BIG picture first.

You’re into the minutia of, to give you an example, ‘why do you, lifeisgood, use ‘Disciples’ instead of ‘disciples’ as if that has any relevance to the BIG picture.

How can you get it anymore backwards than this?
The BIG picture is a summation of ALL OF THE DETAILS.

Yes, I know why you capitalize some words that should be capitalized. Because you are attempting to OVER emphasize a point to "prove" your argument (an argument that is clearly weak or would not have to do such things).

The only thing that stands between dying, lost humanity, and eternal judgment, SO SAYS PAUL, is the Cross of Christ [1 Cor. 1:23; 2:2; Eph. 2:13–18; Col. 2:14–15] NO minutia there.

Yes, this is the dispensation of the grace of God!

Oh, and what a sentence it is. It is an ENORMOUS sentence.

No, it's an entire BOOK.

It can only be seen in the BIG, then bringing the interest of the viewer into focus by the preaching of that ONE SENTENCE, the viewer want to see more of that one sentence, and then the aha moment of that one sentence saving the sinner going straight to hell who was given the BIG picture so that he/she can rest on it.

Oh, yes, and what a sentence it is.

Paul saw that one sentence and it took him at least 14 epistles and he did not want to go with Jesus yet, because he did not feel he had been able to give us all that that ONE SENTENCE entails.

Thanks for confirming my point!

But you, Right Divider, was saved by the BIG picture and then you went looking for the DETAILS of that BIG picture that saved you — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary --- so that you could understand the BIG sentence.

Do you not know, have you not read that Paul was the one who said that the whole of the BIG picture was summarized in one sentence? You should read Paul sometimes.

Now, you, Right Divider, want people to see the DETAILS and you forget to preach the BIG sentence.

Now, you, Right Divider are entitled to your own understanding.

Once again, LG.... I'm not dialoging with an UNBELIEVER here.

YOU call yourself a BELIEVER. Therefore, I should be able to discuss ALL of the IMPORTANT DETAILS of scripture with you. But instead you throw insults around and claim that important details are "just minutia".

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Ah yes, brotherly name calling (for at least the third time).


Can't speak with substance, so name-call. Got it.


I have not and do not care.


This is from the same guy that said that "there is ONE good new, but their are other news that are good". It's say that you are the one peddling minutia. Please start a complete thread on that topic. That would be very enlightening.


Continued insults. I guess that it's difficult for a spirit filled believer, like yourself, to have a civil discussion without reverting to those tactics.

Maybe it has escaped your notice, but you just gave some DETAILS, which you call "minutia" when I do it. You are a hypocrite!


How can you get it anymore backwards than this?
The BIG picture is a summation of ALL OF THE DETAILS.

Yes, I know why you capitalize some words that should be capitalized. Because you are attempting to OVER emphasize a point to "prove" your argument (an argument that is clearly weak or would not have to do such things).


Yes, this is the dispensation of the grace of God!


No, it's an entire BOOK.


Thanks for confirming my point!


Once again, LG.... I'm not dialoging with an UNBELIEVER here.

YOU call yourself a BELIEVER. Therefore, I should be able to discuss ALL of the IMPORTANT DETAILS of scripture with you. But instead you throw insults around and claim that important details are "just minutia".

Get saved.

 

[lifeisgood]

Ah yes, brotherly name calling (for at least the third time).

I would take it as an honor.

Can't speak with substance, so name-call. Got it.

You changed the subject, so appropriate example from where I’m sitting.
You do not have to agree with me though.

I have not and do not care.

Therefore, your misunderstanding of my point.

This is from the same guy that said that "there is ONE good new, but their are other news that are good". It's say that you are the one peddling minutia. Please start a complete thread on that topic. That would be very enlightening.

You can’t get into the minutia of something if you do not talk about the BIG picture first.

And, yes, there is ONLY one THE good news, however, the Bible does speak about news that are good.

Continued insults. I guess that it's difficult for a spirit filled believer, like yourself, to have a civil discussion without reverting to those tactics.

Maybe it has escaped your notice, but you just gave some DETAILS, which you call "minutia" when I do it. You are a hypocrite!

I gave you some minutia hoping that you would give an awesome answer that would bring us to the BIG picture where that minutia came from and I get ‘hypocrite’. Was that your best minutia?

How can you get it anymore backwards than this?
The BIG picture is a summation of ALL OF THE DETAILS.

:doh:

Yes, I know why you capitalize some words that should be capitalized. Because you are attempting to OVER emphasize a point to "prove" your argument (an argument that is clearly weak or would not have to do such things).

Oh, minutia one, when the Lord saved you was it because you were shown the minutia of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Heaven and the kingdom of Christ? Or because you heard Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary for lost, dying humanity, from which you are a member.

Yes, this is the dispensation of the grace of God!

And you would call it minutia.
I on the other hand I call it the BIG picture Paul received from the Living One and he was trying to give to us in his 14 epistles.

Anyone who gets the BIG picture Paul is giving will also get what he is saying.

No, it's an entire BOOK.

Yes, to explain the BIG / ENORMOUS sentence Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary, which most in the BOC in our modern times have no idea what it is.

Some don't even know what was 'the sin' He took away. It was only one.

Thanks for confirming my point!

That Paul was explaining the BIG / ENORMOUS sentence he himself received from the Living One Himself — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary?

Have been telling you all about it all along, but you’re so engrossed in the minutia, you’ve missed my point from the beginning of our conversation, accusing me of being a hypocrite.

Once again, LG.... I'm not dialoging with an UNBELIEVER here.
YOU call yourself a BELIEVER. Therefore, I should be able to discuss ALL of the IMPORTANT DETAILS of scripture with you. But instead you throw insults around and claim that important details are "just minutia".

Just like when you, instead of understanding my point, decided to ask why I use “Disciples” or “disciples”? I do not take “Disciples” or “disciples” as something that need discussion.

Now, for me, “the written Word of God” and “the Word of God” are totally different and both, for me, cannot be “the Word of God”. Now, that’s a minutia for you.

Or how about, when people say, well, it is Paul’s gospel or it is Apollos or whatever, and I say, ‘no it is not’ talk about minutia.