How can this be understood without future knowledge?

[bwood]

JER 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

The second clause is fine, but the first, before he was even formed; it's hard to see how this can be understood without future knowledge.
Unless God simply could see that his mother was going to conceive, that he intended a future for the child, and that that is the only sense in which he "knew" the person that would become Jeremiah.
If that's the case, however, than we're right back in my previous post; that God must've gone through other potential Jeremiahs before he got to the real one. Certainly possible, but seems... not to fit the thrust of the passage.

 

[JudgeRightly]

JER 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

The second clause is fine, but the first, before he was even formed;

You realize there's 9 months between conception and birth, right?

God can look at a just-fertilized human embryo and know everything about that person. That's present knowledge, not future.

Then all He has to do is to set him apart (definition of sanctify) for a task.

it's hard to see how this can be understood without future knowledge.
Unless God simply could see that his mother was going to conceive, that he intended a future for the child, and that that is the only sense in which he "knew" the person that would become Jeremiah.
If that's the case, however, than we're right back in my previous post; that God must've gone through other potential Jeremiahs before he got to the real one. Certainly possible, but seems... not to fit the thrust of the passage.

It's not hard at all.

God can use anyone for a task.

 

[bwood]

Minor point I suppose, but you missed it; "before formed" almost certainly means before conception (that's how virtually everyone understands it). So the ordaining took place with at least some foreknowledge.
But even setting that aside, how did God know, with certainly, Jeremiah's future? How did he know Jeremiah would accept the mission?
I submit either he does know the future in detail (something I tend to doubt), or "many are called, few are chosen" is a description of his ongoing attempts to get people to actually follow their calling. If the latter is true, then there must've been other potential Jeremiahs whom God called, but they didn't answer.

 

[Derf]

Minor point I suppose, but you missed it; "before formed" almost certainly means before conception (that's how virtually everyone understands it). So the ordaining took place with at least some foreknowledge.
But even setting that aside, how did God know, with certainly, Jeremiah's future? How did he know Jeremiah would accept the mission?
I submit either he does know the future in detail (something I tend to doubt), or "many are called, few are chosen" is a description of his ongoing attempts to get people to actually follow their calling. If the latter is true, then there must've been other potential Jeremiahs whom God called, but they didn't answer.

Many people are set apart for a special mission and then don’t perform it to completion. The whole nation of Israel is one prime example.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Minor point I suppose, but you missed it; "before formed" almost certainly means before conception

Because you say so?

Rather, it just means before the baby in the womb has developed at all. Meaning, "immediately after conception" is not excluded, all the way up to the point where a form takes shape (which is, as I understand it, several weeks afterwards)

(that's how virtually everyone understands it).

Appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy.

So the ordaining took place with at least some foreknowledge.
But even setting that aside, how did God know, with certainly, Jeremiah's future?

He didn't know his future. He simply knew what kind of person he would be. There IS a difference.

Genes play a large part in how a person develops, in addition to how they're raised, and the environment they're raised in.

Who a person "is" is largely dependent on their genes. Introvert, extrovert, wise, foolish, etc.

How did he know Jeremiah would accept the mission?

Again, He knew what kind of person Jeremiah would be, which is someone who would be highly likely to accept the mission

I submit either he does know the future in detail (something I tend to doubt),

Which isn't supported by scripture.

or "many are called, few are chosen" is a description of his ongoing attempts to get people to actually follow their calling. If the latter is true, then there must've been other potential Jeremiahs whom God called, but they didn't answer.

I suppose that's a possibility, however such is speculation.

 

[Derf]

Because you say so?

Rather, it just means before the baby in the womb has developed at all. Meaning, "immediately after conception" is not excluded, all the way up to the point where a form takes shape (which is, as I understand it, several weeks afterwards)



Appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy.



He didn't know his future. He simply knew what kind of person he would be. There IS a difference.

Genes play a large part in how a person develops, in addition to how they're raised, and the environment they're raised in.

Who a person "is" is largely dependent on their genes. Introvert, extrovert, wise, foolish, etc.



Again, He knew what kind of person Jeremiah would be, which is someone who would be highly likely to accept the mission



Which isn't supported by scripture.



I suppose that's a possibility, however such is speculation.

@bwood, besides the foregoing, Samson was another case where God knew something about what Samson would do before he was conceived—that he would begin to deliver Israel from the Philistines. But God knew something about Samson by knowing his parents, by being involved in the conception (He knew she would have a son), and He gave specific instructions to the mom about herself and about him. Samson did not follow all of the instructions, but God still used him to begin to deliver the Israelites. I expect that if Samson had followed the instructions better, his life would have been longer, and the delivery would have been more complete.