Interplanner
Well-known member
Great, I'm glad.
But it is confirmed or enough of it is confirmed. Those people who confirm it are not "evil." Nor are they my favorites.
ECT How Can the Preterists be so Blind?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Great, I'm glad.
But it is confirmed or enough of it is confirmed. Those people who confirm it are not "evil." Nor are they my favorites.
God's Truth
New member
You are having a hard time with this. What don't you get about the Bible being Holy and the writings of historians not Holy?
What don't you get that I believe everything in the Bible happened and I do not need extra books from mere men to tell me it really happened?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Does it matter why miracles/healings were shown to priests? Does it matter that there are demonstrations of the truth of the Bible?
Interplanner
Well-known member
"Holy" is not a separate area of knowledge. It is distinct morally. But Lazarus resurrection was not a "holy" event that no one else can know about.
God's Truth
New member
I did not say that.
I did not say that either. I said Jesus says we will know if what he says is true if we obey what he says, see John 7:17, and John 14:21.
Nowhere anywhere in the Bible are we told to search books on archaeology and history to prove Jesus existed and if what the Bible says is real and true.
Interplanner
Well-known member
And yet thousands of things are proved in the Bible. the whole purpose of the healing of the paralytic (the 1st?) is to show that there is proof to Jesus claim to be the Son of Man who can forgive sins. Real, normal proof.
Why were miracles/healings shown to the priests?
Good for all those who don't need more, but Jesus did give it.
God's Truth
New member
Everything in the Bible matters. What your preferred other books say does not matter.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Do you realize most of the time I'm talking about things the Bible mentions? The Bible mentions them. Not other books.
I don't think you know what the question is yet.
I don't think you know what the question is yet.
Here; in sound bite form - just for you.
Israel was made a sign people.
Because the issue was a literal, physical, earthly kingdom.
Moses at the Red Sea - "Behold the salvation of your God!"
All that ended after Pentecost, as God withdrew from Israel and with that; His signs in the Gentiles towards provoking that nation to jealousy.
It is why you Partials and your parent, the Preterist; are wrong.
With Paul forward the issue became "by faith, and not by sight."
And "when that which is perfect" reached its perfection - before 70AD - all that remained - was "faith, hope, and charity."
With that, all that now abided was faith, hope, and charity; not current events like 70AD, this side of "that which is perfect is come."
How do I know?
This I tell you, this I know. For,
2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells me so.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's not an answer. You've stopped thinking.
The recent debate, however, with God'sT was not proof as it relates to Israel vs others, but just about whether there is any in the Bible at all; is there any sense of proving itself?
The answer is emphatically yes. They are proofs that do not depend on sect, race, gender, ethnos, class, education. They are just common sense.
You may be right about the shift from targeting Israel with signs to targeting Gentiles with answers. I'll think about it. Acts 14:20 is a bit of a sign to Gentiles. Paul went to Macedonia because of a vision. The Spirit came to a handful of men in Acts 19 to show the same thing as before. Paul raised Eutychus from death in Acts 20. His transfer in 23 is a bit of a sign! His surviving a snake bite was a sign to fatalist Gentiles in 28. It looks like signs and answers both, but not so much to Jews.
But I believed that already. That's I'm not wrong about this one thing. I don't know if I'm a preterist so you can stop hiding behind labels and actually do some work. More work than just making 2 Tim 3 a banner that you think you own, even if you use it backwards.
I have no idea what you are saying about the DofJ, and no idea what you think connects it to 2 Tim 3. The last lines are not worthwhile.
The recent debate, however, with God'sT was not proof as it relates to Israel vs others, but just about whether there is any in the Bible at all; is there any sense of proving itself?
The answer is emphatically yes. They are proofs that do not depend on sect, race, gender, ethnos, class, education. They are just common sense.
You may be right about the shift from targeting Israel with signs to targeting Gentiles with answers. I'll think about it. Acts 14:20 is a bit of a sign to Gentiles. Paul went to Macedonia because of a vision. The Spirit came to a handful of men in Acts 19 to show the same thing as before. Paul raised Eutychus from death in Acts 20. His transfer in 23 is a bit of a sign! His surviving a snake bite was a sign to fatalist Gentiles in 28. It looks like signs and answers both, but not so much to Jews.
But I believed that already. That's I'm not wrong about this one thing. I don't know if I'm a preterist so you can stop hiding behind labels and actually do some work. More work than just making 2 Tim 3 a banner that you think you own, even if you use it backwards.
I have no idea what you are saying about the DofJ, and no idea what you think connects it to 2 Tim 3. The last lines are not worthwhile.
The Lord's signs through Paul throughout Acts were meant to confirm God's Word through Paul that He had turned from Israel.
That God had turned from this in Romans 15 that had been Prophesied:
8. Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9. And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12. And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
To this in Romans 15 that had not been Prophesied:
13. Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
14. And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
15. Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19. Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Paul, as his habit was, based his ministry, on a principle found in both - that which was prophesied as to the Gentiles but did not come to pass due to Israel's failure, and that which came to pass through Paul's obedience unto his calling as to this issue: - Romans 15's:
21. But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
22. For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
And he himself was "born out of" Israel's "due time" Acts 3 calling, under the Twelve, 1 Cor. 15:8.
He was saved unto this calling among the Gentiles before Israel's prophesied, due time redemption and calling among the Gentiles, now on hold, thus Paul's "now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing," etc.
That God had turned from this in Romans 15 that had been Prophesied:
8. Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9. And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12. And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
To this in Romans 15 that had not been Prophesied:
13. Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
14. And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
15. Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19. Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Paul, as his habit was, based his ministry, on a principle found in both - that which was prophesied as to the Gentiles but did not come to pass due to Israel's failure, and that which came to pass through Paul's obedience unto his calling as to this issue: - Romans 15's:
21. But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
22. For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
And he himself was "born out of" Israel's "due time" Acts 3 calling, under the Twelve, 1 Cor. 15:8.
He was saved unto this calling among the Gentiles before Israel's prophesied, due time redemption and calling among the Gentiles, now on hold, thus Paul's "now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing," etc.
Right Divider
Body part
Really? You can't see the QUOTE in that post?
Interplanner
Well-known member
He still appeals to his countrymen all through it. God doesn't work with ethnos any more anyway, says Rom 11:30. The all Israel thing is historic and ongoing and it runs to the end of time, which Judaism called the age of the nations. And what was Peter doing the whole time God had "quit"?
Interplanner
Well-known member
No but I do see your sinner list, which is very arrogant of you.
Why were miracles/healings supposed to be shown to priests?
rainee
New member
Hi y'all,
Paul says the ones that are beloved by God are enemies concerning the Gospel for the the sake of those he is talking to, see below:
Romans 11:28-31
...When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has 8committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
So folks, why would God turn His back on Israel if Paul says God loves them as enemies of the Gospel?
Either you are against Paul and can't believe what he is saying... ?
Or you think the translation of Paul's words is wonkie and can't be trusted...?
Please tell. But how will any of you say you are believers if I can't actually find you believing what you see Paul says about God?
This is not rocket science, people.
Either you accept that Paul is saying that God loves these enemies of the Gospel or....you don't. :idunno:
But you can't be claiming Paul as your apostle if you don't.
Paul says the ones that are beloved by God are enemies concerning the Gospel for the the sake of those he is talking to, see below:
Romans 11:28-31
...When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has 8committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
So folks, why would God turn His back on Israel if Paul says God loves them as enemies of the Gospel?
Either you are against Paul and can't believe what he is saying... ?
Or you think the translation of Paul's words is wonkie and can't be trusted...?
Please tell. But how will any of you say you are believers if I can't actually find you believing what you see Paul says about God?
This is not rocket science, people.
Either you accept that Paul is saying that God loves these enemies of the Gospel or....you don't. :idunno:
But you can't be claiming Paul as your apostle if you don't.
Interplanner
Well-known member
God is not doing anything with whole ethos at a time. The whole of Rom 11 is to show there has always been just a remnant or elect and that's what there will be. 'kai houtos' in 26 (In this way, And so in this manner..." means that's how Israel will be to the end of time. Partly hard. There is the other Israel he's been talking about that will be all saved, but you have to see that he does explain why the ethnos has had such a crummy track record.
God's loving of them does not mean they are going to turn to him. And anyway if "all" Israel was about the ethnos, what good does that do for those in 500 AD or all the other lost generations?
God's loving of them does not mean they are going to turn to him. And anyway if "all" Israel was about the ethnos, what good does that do for those in 500 AD or all the other lost generations?
Right Divider
Body part
More lies from a liar. Where do I call it a "sinners list". You are a liar and an idiot.
Oh goody, a question from left field. :kookoo:
Interplanner
Well-known member
It was your list at the footer of your pages, which is offensive and ignorant.
The question is about the practice in Judaism, sometimes required by Jesus when he healed, of showing that a healing/skin disease had cleared up. Either you don't know the Bible or you don't care or both. The object of the question, going back to the debate with God'sTruth about proof, was to show that the healing/miracle was proven, because proof matters to God and Christ.
That's why it is a sin against the 10 Commands to violate a story in court by changing something.
If you don't really care about things like that, why are you here?
The question is about the practice in Judaism, sometimes required by Jesus when he healed, of showing that a healing/skin disease had cleared up. Either you don't know the Bible or you don't care or both. The object of the question, going back to the debate with God'sTruth about proof, was to show that the healing/miracle was proven, because proof matters to God and Christ.
That's why it is a sin against the 10 Commands to violate a story in court by changing something.
If you don't really care about things like that, why are you here?
Right Divider
Body part
I knew what you were talking about. Where did you get "SINNERS LIST" from? From your feeble little lying mind.
You're becoming such a little brat. And sometimes Jesus told them to tell no one.
Your logic is illogical. The list is my well reasoned opinion of people here based on their posts. That's how you graduated to the list. Well done! :cigar:
Interplanner
Well-known member
Yes, do you know why he told them not to tell anyone some times?
Do you suppose that you have any credibility here? Why are you here?
Do you suppose that you have any credibility here? Why are you here?