Honest Answers.

[Ktoyou]

You don't. But if you choose to pick a biblical subject to debate with me, you might find out who is a goofball and who is not.

You think so, huh.............

 

[S-word]

You think so, huh.............

YUP!

 

[Lon]

:think:


skinker?

:nono: Skinker:
View attachment 25507

 

[Silent Hunter]

I ... have been on many Christian forums and banned from many.

Given your attitude, misrepresentation and disrespect of a long-time poster, I suspect it won't be very long before you are banned from here as well. Jerks, such as yourself, NEVER last long..

 

[steko]

Ooh, ooh, we-e-e!!!

 

[quip]

quip Wrote.............Who are you repeating this rhetoric for?

S-word.........For you mate. Seeing that this is an honesty thread, I was hoping that you might be honest enough to say; "OK mate, I admit that I made a boo, boo and answered 'YES' to your question." But apparently that aint never going to happen, is it?

Sounds like you keep parroting yourself in the hope that I will agree with you. This monotonous plea to prove yourself correct obviously isn't for me....I'm simply a means to your self-manipulating ego stroking....mate.

quip wrote........ Are you trying to convince me....or yourself?

S-word.........Well, I am totally convinced that you answered 'YES' to my question, so apparently it must be to convince you, that by denying that, your are a dishonest person as well as whatever ClimateSanity calls you.

Well, I am totally convinced that I answered 'YES' to your question as well, thus it must be the contrived implications behind the 'YES' answer you're so desperate to convince yourself of...correct?

Nuff said.

quip Wrote......... P.S. come on, fess up. Who were you in another ToL life?

S-word..........Mate, I am in my late seventies and have been on many Christian forums and banned from many. But only under three different names, S-word, being one of them.

Then the old dog must learn a new trick....this one's getting stale.

But I can not for the life of me, remember ever being on this forum. Perhaps if you can remember the name of the poster who you think might be myself, I can tell you for sure. For it would had to have been one of my other two names.

Which are?

 

[S-word]

Sounds like you keep parroting yourself in the hope that I will agree with you. This monotonous plea to prove yourself correct obviously isn't for me....I'm simply a means to your self-manipulating ego stroking....mate.



Well, I am totally convinced that I answered 'YES' to your question as well, thus it must be the contrived implications behind the 'YES' answer you're so desperate to convince yourself of...correct?

Nuff said.



Then the old dog must learn a new trick....this one's getting stale.



Which are?

quip wrote........Well, I am totally convinced that I answered 'YES' to your question as well, thus it must be the contrived implications behind the 'YES' answer you're so desperate to convince yourself of...correct?

S-word........ Nope, incorrect. I just wanted your confession that you did answer 'YES' to the question, was ClimateSanity correct in his assertion that you are an arrogant self aggrandizement person.

But now that you have finally confessed to having answered yes to the question, admitting that you believe that ClimateSanity's assertion of yourself was correct, it is now finished.


As to the other two poster names I use, I'll let you know if the name of your mysterious poster is one of them.

 

[quip]

S-word........ Nope, incorrect. I just wanted your confession that you did answer 'YES' to the question, was ClimateSanity correct in his assertion that you are an arrogant self aggrandizement person.

But now that you have finally confessed to having answered yes to the question, admitting that you believe that ClimateSanity's assertion of yourself was correct, it is now finished.

:BRAVO: Splendid!
We may now move on with the rest of our lives.

As to the other two poster names I use, I'll let you know if the name of your mysterious poster is one of them.

You do that. :thumb:

 

[Halster]

i don't understand why a belief system rooted in selfishness worries about empathy

Its not a belief system, I don't believe in anything, I don't need to have a belief in something. It's about as far from selfish as you can possibly get... I spend a lot of my time contributing to my community in anyway I can, volunteering in charity shops and the like. Just because you don't have a faith it doesn't make you inherently selfish. What your showing in fact is a complete lack of empathy for me and my position in life. Whilst I seek information and perspective, you dismiss other perspectives totally which is why I have always had a negative view on faith and belief systems.

 

[Halster]

Thanks Chair, this kind of perspective is interesting to me. So you identify as Jewish as tradition, like friday night dinners and going to your place of worship?

 

[Halster]

My basis for whether something is 'good' or not, is if it harms people emotionally and physically. For example, lacking empathy can inadvertently emotionally harm someone if I am talking to someone of faith or belief in a deity and could accidentally insult someone because of my ignorance to their faith. Again negative things such as arrogance is 'bad' because it gives people a negative view of you, thinking that you know everything, ie arrogance is just a negative personality trait. Its hard to explain but most is just common sense... Basically I believe that if someone needs, or requires some form of deity to instruct them on what is good and bad then they must have a very skewed perception of the world of which I don't really understand. And therefore in my mind cannot be a very good person. However thats just me..

 

[Town Heretic]

My basis for whether something is 'good' or not, is if it harms people emotionally and physically.

Would you confront a racist if the truth would harm him or her emotionally?

For example, lacking empathy can inadvertently emotionally harm someone if I am talking to someone of faith or belief in a deity and could accidentally insult someone because of my ignorance to their faith.

It's possible, depending on the level of maturity you exhibit in addressing the faith or theirs in hearing and answering. I rarely offended Christians and others during my atheist years. It wasn't hard to avoid because I wasn't interested in doing that and it actually takes an effort to manage it with most. It was as simple as not discussing faith with strangers, which I wasn't inclined to do anyway, not having any, and being mindful of my friends who held a different context, one any number of admirable and brilliant souls had held from antiquity to present day, however it failed to interest or convince me.

I by and large tried to let people live by the light they wanted provided they did the same for me. And people largely responded in kind. Some friends tried the approach and I gave them honest answers that closed the door without taking any part of their foot off. In short, if you're offending people you mean to, no matter how softly you creep up on them, no matter what you wrap the stick in.

Again negative things such as arrogance is 'bad' because it gives people a negative view of you, thinking that you know everything, ie arrogance is just a negative personality trait.

Who decides the difference between arrogance and simply knowing something that the other guy doesn't? It's tricky.

Basically I believe that if someone needs, or requires some form of deity to instruct them on what is good and bad then they must have a very skewed perception of the world of which I don't really understand.

See, that struck me as needless, arrogant and presumptive. Why? Because you began with the "they need," thinly veiled crutch foundation and the equally dismissive "some form or deity" to tell them it's bad to (fill in the harm) they must have a "skewed" (twisted or distorted) perception that is alien to unskewed, independent you (following the necessary--we can only see the skewed if we aren't, etc.).

Here's how you could have put it. "I don't understand why some people believe in God or gods. I don't understand why it's necessary to have a God or gods to understand how we should live and treat one another. I don't feel compelled to believe in God or gods, can't see a good reason to accept any one of a number of competing ideas on the point and feel fine with the ethical and moral choices I've made by virtue of my own reflection and consideration. Now tell me why I'm wrong to think this way."

See, it wasn't really all that hard to fundamentally disagree while remaining on point, respectful, inviting reasoned response and offering no particular assessment of the other guy's heart and mind, which you can't know in any event, only assume to your detriment.

It's always the other guy who's skewed and weak. We're all the hero of our own narrative.

And therefore in my mind cannot be a very good person. However thats just me.

So you aren't really that concerned about insulting people after all, are you. In fact, your closing is indistinguishable from most zealous proponents of any particular life philosophy. You don't believe as I do. You can't be a very good person.

So what you're demonstrating is something I've said for a very long time. Eliminate God from the dictionary and you won't eliminate the problems that people lay at His feet.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Would you confront a racist if the truth would harm him or her emotionally?


It's possible, depending on the level of maturity you exhibit in addressing the faith or theirs in hearing and answering. I rarely offended Christians and others during my atheist years. It wasn't hard to avoid because I wasn't interested in doing that and it actually takes an effort to manage it with most. It was as simple as not discussing faith with strangers, which I wasn't inclined to do anyway, not having any, and being mindful of my friends who held a different context, one any number of admirable and brilliant souls had held from antiquity to present day, however it failed to interest or convince me.

I by and large tried to let people live by the light they wanted provided they did the same for me. And people largely responded in kind. Some friends tried the approach and I gave them honest answers that closed the door without taking any part of their foot off. In short, if you're offending people you mean to, no matter how softly you creep up on them, no matter what you wrap the stick in.


Who decides the difference between arrogance and simply knowing something that the other guy doesn't? It's tricky.


See, that struck me as needless, arrogant and presumptive. Why? Because you began with the "they need," thinly veiled crutch foundation and the equally dismissive "some form or deity" to tell them it's bad to (fill in the harm) they must have a "skewed" (twisted or distorted) perception that is alien to unskewed, independent you (following the necessary--we can only see the skewed if we aren't, etc.).

Here's how you could have put it. "I don't understand why some people believe in God or gods. I don't understand why it's necessary to have a God or gods to understand how we should live and treat one another. I don't feel compelled to believe in God or gods, can't see a good reason to accept any one of a number of competing ideas on the point and feel fine with the ethical and moral choices I've made by virtue of my own reflection and consideration. Now tell me why I'm wrong to think this way."

See, it's always the other guy who's skewed and weak. We're all the hero of our own narrative.


So you aren't really that concerned about insulting people after all, are you. In fact, your closing is indistinguishable from most zealous proponents of any particular life philosophy. You don't believe as I do. You can't be a very good person.

So what you're demonstrating is something I've said for a very long time. Eliminate God from the dictionary and you won't eliminate the problems that people lay at His feet.

This is where you are your best TH. There is no one better at dealing with atheists or "fake" truth seekers.

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Lon]

Whilst I seek information and perspective, you dismiss other perspectives totally which is why I have always had a negative view on faith and belief systems.

I wonder if you recognize the incongruity here.

My arrogance is that I know what is true and am able to think logically. I was more logical than some of my atheist professors.

Is that really arrogance? I rather think it is an ability to see through illogical world views. Your parents passed something on to you, and you really need to reject it. Whatever they gave you that was good, keep it. Jettison that which doesn't make sense and doesn't serve you well. What you may or may not desire doesn't by any necessity serve you well.

As far as Christianity, give the New Testament a read through if you are interested in us. -Lon

 

[quip]

Who decides the difference between arrogance and simply knowing something that the other guy doesn't? It's tricky.

Quite right. As a non-believer in Christianity I'm defaulted as arrogant. Some on here go by great machinations and irrational manipulation in an attempt to "prove" their conclusions about me.

Preordained conclusions in desperate grasps at crafty premises. (Re: My exchange with S-word.)

Is that not arrogance itself?

 

[Town Heretic]

Quite right. As a non-believer in Christianity I'm defaulted as arrogant. Some on here go by great machinations and irrational manipulation in an attempt to "prove" their conclusions about me.

It happens. I tend to take people as I meet them, having been a pleasant enough fellow as an atheist and finding no shortage of presumptive, hostile people who go by the Christian label.

Is that not arrogance itself?

I suppose arrogance is a lot like profanity.

 

[ok doser]

Its not a belief system, I don't believe in anything, I don't need to have a belief in something.

oh, i suspect you do

I spend a lot of my time contributing to my community in anyway I can, volunteering in charity shops and the like.

see? - right there


you believe in contributing to your community and volunteering in charity shops


i wonder why?

 

[S-word]

Quite right. As a non-believer in Christianity I'm defaulted as arrogant. Some on here go by great machinations and irrational manipulation in an attempt to "prove" their conclusions about me.

Preordained conclusions in desperate grasps at crafty premises. (Re: My exchange with S-word.)

Is that not arrogance itself?

Why? Didn't that little bit of nonsense lighten up your day? It did mine.

 

[musterion]

Hello, I am a 17 year old male from the UK, and was brought up an atheist. I'm posting on here to ask a pressing question of mine. To me I don't feel I require faith, or religion however I'd like to try and understand why people do, so please, share your stories, why or how you have come to faith and why you feel you need it?

How do you know that there is no God?

Explain that first, then discussion about others people's faiths will/may be relevant.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Quite right. As a non-believer in Christianity I'm defaulted as arrogant. Some on here go by great machinations and irrational manipulation in an attempt to "prove" their conclusions about me.

Preordained conclusions in desperate grasps at crafty premises. (Re: My exchange with S-word.)

Is that not arrogance itself?

You guys don't recognize your own arrogance as you blame causal factors not even in proximity to being correct. Being a non believer has nothing to do with it. Town is a believer and his arrogance far exceeds yours.

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