No, Jesus is not God the Father just as I am not my father.
The term "God" is not Hebrew, it is an English term.
Prior to his human incarnation Jesus was not God the Son, he was God and he was with God. (John 1:1)
Hey, unitarian! By 'God', do you mean God the Father?
- Thread starter 7djengo7
- Start date
No, Jesus is not God the Father just as I am not my father.
The term "God" is not Hebrew, it is an English term.
Prior to his human incarnation Jesus was not God the Son, he was God and he was with God. (John 1:1)
k0de
Active member
Jeez. The enemy love this kind of talk among so called Christians. Divide and Conquer. Perhaps, his best weapon.
I just wonder what the Master has to say about such arguments, accusations and judgments such as these? [emoji848]
And this is said from the mouth of a trinitarian.
I just wonder what the Master has to say about such arguments, accusations and judgments such as these? [emoji848]
And this is said from the mouth of a trinitarian.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Matthew 18:17 KJV
" . . . if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
7djengo7
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See, you had no trouble answering that question. You had nothing to try to hide by doing so. Of course, you and I both know that you are driven to try to hide from answering the question that this thread is about:
TrevorL, by the word 'God', when you say "Jesus is not God", are you referring to God the Father? Yes or No?
I could not care less. Stop trolling.
Still (as you, and I, and everybody reading this thread knows), you have not answered the question of this thread. All you've managed to do, here, is to generate more questions that you are forced to stonewall against:
TrevorL, by the word 'God', when you say "Jesus is not God in the English sense of the word", are you referring to God the Father? Yes or No?
TrevorL, by the word 'God', when you say "Jesus...is God (Hebrew Elohim) in the Bible sense of the word", are you referring to God the Father? Yes or No?
k0de
Active member
Hmm, the word of the Master but incomplete. [emoji848]
Matthew 18: 15. "If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.
16. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
17. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
My work is done here, let the Master decide between the two who holds the Truth.
Carry on, [emoji470]
7djengo7
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You get it. Isn't it amazing how not difficult it is!
7djengo7
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Interesting problem you create for yourself, here.
See, you just said that Jesus is "not God the son". Now, by the phrase, "God the son", either you are referring to someone, or you are not referring to anyone. If you are not referring to anyone, then you are merely using the phrase, "God the son", meaninglessly. If you are using the phrase meaninglessly, then, your larger construct ("Jesus is not God the son") is just as meaningless as its component phrase; you're not stating something about someone or something. Thus, you've neither stated a truth, nor have you stated a falsehood, since every truth, and every falsehood, is about something, or someone.
Now, if, instead, you are using the phrase, "God the son", meaningfully (that is, if you are referring, by it, to someone or to something), then you've got the problem of needing to tell us (if you are to have any hope of being understood, and conveying information) to whom, or to what, you are referring by the phrase, "God the son", when you say "Jesus is not God the son".
Greetings again 7djengo7,
Kind regards
Trevor
But even this question I qualified because you were wrong in what you were asking, showing that you are not interested in the overall picture and detail. Chevrolet is only one brand that General Motors produce, and they never manufactured Chevrolets in Australia. You are also asking your question without viewing the overall picture and detail. So your question is a play with words again based upon your wrong concepts. And you are starting to shout, possibly angry because I will not play your particular game.
Kind regards
Trevor
7djengo7
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Either you have driven a vehicle made by Chevrolet, or you have not driven a vehicle made by Chevrolet. There is no middle ground.
The question I asked you was whether you have driven a vehicle made by Chevrolet, or not. You answered it promptly, and frankly, by saying "No." Not difficult. All the other stuff you wrote in that paragraph was of no relevance to the question, whatsoever.
When you say "this question I qualified", you are speaking neither truth, nor falsehood; you are uttering nonsense.
Unlike your response to the Chevy question, so far, you have persistently stonewalled against the question:
TrevorL, by the word 'God', when you say "Jesus is not God", are you referring to God the Father? Yes or No?
I'm not the least bit angry about the fact that, as an unitarian, you MUST STONEWALL against the question that this thread is about. I'm quite happy about that, rather. The self-imposed necessity you are under to stonewall against it was the very point I meant to get across in creating the thread, and asking the question. The necessity you are under to stonewall against the question is self-imposed, because, as you and I both understand, both a "Yes" answer, and a "No" answer, are equally, insurmountably embarrassing to your unitarianism, and so, you are simply trying to save face. But, your stonewalling against the question is just as insurmountably embarrassing to your unitarianism as a "Yes", or a "No" answer would be.
Of course, since the question embarrasses your unitarianism, you will, naturally, be inclined to try to prop yourself up, and sooth the sting, by chanting to yourself meaningless bromides such as "7djengo7 is playing with words", and "I don't have to play 7djengo7's particular game".
You saying that--"your question is a play with words"--is nothing other than the sound of you losing the argument. You've done your best to lie, and to fart out a cloud of nonsense in futile hope of hiding the fact that the question stings you, but your efforts have been, and will continue to be, a dismal failure.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The Church "holds the Truth," K0de. Cf. 1st Timothy 3:15 KJV.
Greetings again 7djengo7,
What surprises me is that you are convinced that your logic is water tight and actually proves what you are claiming. Instead of asking such obscure, incomplete and ambiguous questions, why not simply state your sequence of logic as “irrefutable truth”, such as A=B, B=C, hence A=C. or a negative version of this to accommodate “not”.
Kind regards
Trevor
But I have ridden in a Chevrolet. As Young People we used to pile in the front and back seats before seat belts were compulsory. Possibly 9 or 10 of us. You helped to bring back happy memories.
What surprises me is that you are convinced that your logic is water tight and actually proves what you are claiming. Instead of asking such obscure, incomplete and ambiguous questions, why not simply state your sequence of logic as “irrefutable truth”, such as A=B, B=C, hence A=C. or a negative version of this to accommodate “not”.
Kind regards
Trevor
oatmeal
Well-known member
When you go about chirpin' out your slogan, "Jesus is not God", all loud and proud, are you, by the word 'God', referring to God the Father? Yes or No?
- Yes? You are?
Then, whenever you say "Jesus is not God", here is what you are saying: Jesus is not God the Father. And, so what if unitarians believe that Jesus is not God the Father?? You know who else believes that Jesus is not God the Father? Christians. That's one belief you unitarians have in common with us Christians. Saying "Jesus is not God the Father" makes nobody a unitarian. Just take a look at the Trinity diagrams you are pleased to revile. What's inscribed on 'em?
Filius non est Pater
What's that?
The Son is not The Father.
That is,
[Jesus] is not [God the Father].
If, when you say "Jesus is not God", you are referring by 'God' to God the Father, why, you're simply stealing material from the Christian world view to try (in laughable futility) to build up your anti-Christian world view. Come up with your own material, instead, how about?
- No? You are not?
Then, whenever you say "Jesus is not God", since you are not referring, by the word 'God', to God the Father, to whom are you referring by the word 'God'? Have fun with that question! Have fun trying to tell us to whom that is not God the Father, you (being unitarians!!!) are referring by the word 'God'. If ONLY God the Father is God, then have fun trying to tell us to whom that is not God the Father you are referring by the word 'God'.
You see, unitarians, there are only two ways to answer the question. One is in the affirmative--"Yes." The other is in the negative--"No." Until you give either a "Yes" or a "No" to the question, you will have failed to answer it.
Happy stonewalling!
What do you mean by "God the Father"?
Regardless. Jesus is not God the Father.
Jesus is not "God the Son" either.
That is a phrase not found in scripture.
Jesus is the son of God. He is referred to as the son of God about 50 times in scripture.
God is the Father of the son of God. Thus the two are not identical.
God is the originator the source of the son .
God is the father of the lord Jesus Christ thus the two are not the same but very very different
When did God the Father become "the Father"?
oatmeal
Well-known member
What does father mean? It is reference to being the male parent of a child as distinct from being the female parent of a child.
It is also used in reference to an adopted child or children. Israel was adopted. Jesus was not.
It it used in reference to someone who was the originator of something as Genesis 4:20-21.
It is used of someone who was outstanding and particularly exemplary in something as Abraham. The father of those who believe.
It is also used to refer to male ancestors as Abraham...
Since Mary is the mother of Jesus and God is the Father of Jesus when of you think God became the Father of Jesus?
oatmeal
Well-known member
I did not dodge the question, I instructed you in the various meanings of the word father. Just so you learn something. I answered it when I pointed out that God is the father of Jesus Christ and Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ.
When did Mary become the mother of Jesus Christ?
When does any father become a father?
When the child is born. When was the child Jesus born?
God became the father of Jesus Christ at the very same instant in time that Mary became the mother of Jesus Christ.
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Chemistry
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Very interesting, and very interesting response, tyvm. :e4e: btw, organic? Physical? Polymer? Thank you again.
Physical. Spectroscopy.
Having a degree in a field is one way to gain knowledge. It is possible for someone to be self-educated and be knowledgeable as well.
7djengo7
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I couldn't care less. I did not ask you, "TrevorL, have you ever ridden in a Chevrolet? Yes or No." I asked you, "TrevorL, have you ever driven a vehicle made by Chevrolet? Yes or No?" Your saying (completely irrelevantly and unsolicitedly) "But I have ridden in a Chevrolet" is not, in part nor in whole, an answer to the question I asked you; your saying "No" was your entire answer to the Yes/No question I asked you.
I couldn't care less. Stop trolling.
Logic is my logic. What does not surprise me is that, as a rank despiser of logic, you are quite proud of yourself in your manifest refusal to think logically.
Here's another question for you to stonewall against, Tr(oll)evorL(iar): What do you, here, say that I am claiming? I asked you "TrevorL, by the word 'God', when you say "Jesus is not God", are you referring to God the Father? Yes or No?", and you have, so far, refused to answer this question. I'm asking you a question. Please try to explain why you imagine that me asking you a question is me claiming something.
You're manifestly a fool, and a troll, to be able to say that the question I asked you ("TrevorL, by the word 'God', when you say "Jesus is not God", are you referring to God the Father? Yes or No?") is "such [an] obscure, incomplete and ambiguous question". Again, your saying that is nothing other than the pathetic sound of you conceding the truth that the question I asked you embarrasses your Christ-hating unitarianism. You're an abject idiot to be able to say that the question I asked you ("TrevorL, have you ever driven a vehicle made by Chevrolet? Yes or No?"--to which, you candidly answered: "No.") is "such [an] obscure, incomplete and ambiguous question".
Until you have declared to whom, exactly, you are, by the word 'God', referring, when you say "Jesus is not God", you are, necessarily, uttering the words, "Jesus is not God", meaninglessly. And, too bad for you and your irrational love of your anti-Christ, anti-Bible, unitarian falsehood: you know just as well as I know that you must, in any case, and at all costs, refuse to say that you are referring to God the Father.
You're just stonewalling, as usual, trying to throw a cloud of your customary gobbledygook in my face. Your attempts at distraction fail.