ECT Heretical Teaching of the Word-Faith Movement

[andyc]

Show me your power,

Why?
You don't believe in the power to heal.

raise my son from the grave.

Why?
You don't believe it's possible.

Tell us how many people you have raised, healed (limbs coming back to life, that kind) or how many you have personally seen have this done.

If you only have testimonies of it, have never witnessed it, ask yourself where the 'power' in your church is. Either they and you have no faith, or its a false teaching.

I have never even seen a dead person, let alone pray for one.
And there is a difference between believing God can heal, and God has healed. I've heared numerous testimonies of healing, and have been healed myself various times. And I myself am not perfect in this, and there are times I doubt in my heart, even though I believe it mentally.
It's not possible to know everything about healing, otherwise we would be God.
Let me tell you this, if someone died in front of me, I would rebuke death in the name of Jesus, and command life to come back into that person. If nothing happened, I would seek the Lord until I knew why nothing happened. And It would not detract me one bit from believing it is God's will. Why?
Because the word says so.

Matthew 10:8 "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.

Yes, this is how it should be.
However, in that passage Jesus gave his disciples a delegated authority for the purpose of preaching the gospel of the kingdom. They were amazed that demons were subject to them, and so they obviously were not operating from their own stand of faith.
There is a difference between operating in faith which anyone can do, and ministering according to a gift. There is a gift of healing, and I do not have that gift. But faith alone can claim healing.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Why?
I have never even seen a dead person, let alone pray for one.
And there is a difference between believing God can heal, and God has healed. I've heared numerous testimonies of healing, and have been healed myself various times. And I myself am not perfect in this, and there are times I doubt in my heart, even though I believe it mentally.
It's not possible to know everything about healing, otherwise we would be God.

Let me tell you this, if someone died in front of me, I would rebuke death in the name of Jesus, and command life to come back into that person. If nothing happened, I would seek the Lord until I knew why nothing happened. And It would not detract me one bit from believing it is God's will. Why?

Because the word says so.

Yes, this is how it should be.

However, in that passage Jesus gave his disciples a delegated authority for the purpose of preaching the gospel of the kingdom. They were amazed that demons were subject to them, and so they obviously were not operating from their own stand of faith.

There is a difference between operating in faith which anyone can do, and ministering according to a gift. There is a gift of healing, and I do not have that gift. But faith alone can claim healing.

So you do not have the gift of healing, where do you think your spiritual gift(s) manifests itself? Speaking in tongues no one can interpret? Preaching the Gospel? It seems like you need to do a self-assessment.

 

[andyc]

So you do not have the gift of healing, where do you think your spiritual gift(s) manifests itself? Speaking in tongues no one can interpret? Preaching the Gospel? It seems like you need to do a self-assessment.

More evidence showing you were never a part of the pentecostal church.
This is very elementary for any pentecostal. If you sat under pentecostal teaching, you'd already know the response.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

More evidence showing you were never a part of the pentecostal church.
This is very elementary for any pentecostal. If you sat under pentecostal teaching, you'd already know the response.

You notice how andyc never answers a question? His answer is to always put someone else down.

 

[musterion]

You notice how andyc never answers a question? His answer is to always put someone else down.

What CAN he say?

 

[andyc]

You notice how andyc never answers a question? His answer is to always put someone else down.

No wait a minute.

I'm so sick of people playing the wounded bird role of the beaten up ex pentecostal. Giving heart wrenching testimonials of being beaten and battered by false teaching, and now all of a sudden they're here to expose and show people the truth.

But when you look at what these people say, it's plain obvious they were never involved in the first place. They don't know the first thing about charismatic teaching. You don't even know what word faith is, so you post links to what other non pentecostals say against it, when you were supposedly involved.

I will respond to every question brought against anything pentecosal charismatic, but I'll also tell you if I think you're not sincere.

Because any experienced pentecostal will see through insincerity.

 

[andyc]

What CAN he say?

The truth.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

No wait a minute.

I'm so sick of people playing the wounded bird role of the beaten up ex pentecostal. Giving heart wrenching testimonials of being beaten and battered by false teaching, and now all of a sudden they're here to expose and show people the truth.

But when you look at what these people say, it's plain obvious they were never involved in the first place. They don't know the first thing about charismatic teaching. You don't even know what word faith is, so you post links to what other non pentecostals say against it, when you were supposedly involved.

I will respond to every question brought against anything pentecosal charismatic, but I'll also tell you if I think you're not sincere.

Because any experienced pentecostal will see through insincerity.

I believe you are the ignorant one, as a large group of people have tried in vain to point out to you. You have yet to answer many questions posed to you. Why? I guess you can't. And to set the record straight which you appear to be constantly revising, I never said I was a Pentecostal. I said I was a non-Denominational Charismatic. I did not and never have been a part of the Pentecostal denomination.

This thread is about heretical teaching. Yet you hope to sidestep that issue by attacking persons you know nothing about. I guess when you don't have and are not being led by the Holy Spirit, so everything is fair game. Well put up or shut up and quit your whining.

 

[Cross Reference]

I believe you are the ignorant one, as a large group of people have tried in vain to point out to you. You have yet to answer many questions posed to you. Why? I guess you can't. And to set the record straight which you appear to be constantly revising, I never said I was a Pentecostal. I said I was a non-Denominational Charismatic. I did not and never have been a part of the Pentecostal denomination.

This thread is about heretical teaching. Yet you hope to sidestep that issue by attacking persons you know nothing about. I guess when you don't have and are not being led by the Holy Spirit, so everything is fair game. Well put up or shut up and quit your whining.

I consider myself a non-Denominational Pentecostal.
_____ ______
Question: What is a "non-Denominational Charismatic??

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

I consider myself a non-Denominational Pentecostal.
_____ ______
Question: What is a "non-Denominational Charismatic??

Fair question. The main focus of the large mega-non Denominational Churches in my home town of St. Louis was getting bigger. The way the service was conducted was to increase the "real or imagined" spiritual gifts to come forth from the congregation before the offering was taken. Teaching on tithes and offerings were regularly preached. Building growth was also preached on a regular basis. When we had around 3000 people as members, a building program was started so that we could go to 5000, then 7000. A retreat area was purchased so those that wanted to pray while walking in a natural environment could. It was nowhere near the church. The preaching was focused on money -- "name it and claim it". Then "eastern" visualization techniques were taught. The visions the Pastor had never came to be. My wife and I lost two children during pregnancy during our time there. All our church friends could say was "we didn't have enough faith." All the people from our Home Bible Study sponsored by the church eventually left. At least two couples got divorced, one couple returned to the RCC, another couple inherited money and lost it all when they moved to California. They returned to Missouri but the wife had to have electro-shock therapy for depression. She was in bad shape when we left Missouri.

The list of heretical teachers at the beginning and throughout this thread were mostly at one or more of the local mega churches, one time or another. God opened my eyes through a series of programs on The John Ankerberg Show on TV. A wide variety of speakers have been on his show but none of the heretics noted above. Dr. John MacArthur, Dave Hunt, the late Dr. Walter Martin, Dr. Walter Kaiser, Dr. R. C. Sproul and other scholars and theologians show what true Christianity was, and what it was not.

Is there something specific you want to ask?

 

[Cross Reference]

Fair question. The main focus of the large mega-non Denominational Churches in my home town of St. Louis was getting bigger. The way the service was conducted was to increase the "real or imagined" spiritual gifts to come forth from the congregation before the offering was taken. Teaching on tithes and offerings were regularly preached. Building growth was also preached on a regular basis. When we had around 3000 people as members, a building program was started so that we could go to 5000, then 7000. A retreat area was purchased so those that wanted to pray while walking in a natural environment could. It was nowhere near the church. The preaching was focused on money -- "name it and claim it". Then "eastern" visualization techniques were taught. The visions the Pastor had never came to be. My wife and I lost two children during pregnancy during our time there. All our church friends could say was "we didn't have enough faith." All the people from our Home Bible Study sponsored by the church eventually left. At least two couples got divorced, one couple returned to the RCC, another couple inherited money and lost it all when they moved to California. They returned to Missouri but the wife had to have electro-shock therapy for depression. She was in bad shape when we left Missouri.

The list of heretical teachers at the beginning and throughout this thread were mostly at one or more of the local mega churches, one time or another. God opened my eyes through a series of programs on The John Ankerberg Show on TV. A wide variety of speakers have been on his show but none of the heretics noted above. Dr. John MacArthur, Dave Hunt, the late Dr. Walter Martin, Dr. Walter Kaiser, Dr. R. C. Sproul and other scholars and theologians show what true Christianity was, and what it was not.

Is there something specific you want to ask?

I asked it and you didn't make a proper distinction between the two groups.

Let me say this, a true Pentecostal is more involved with knowing God in an intimate way than he is about anything else in his/her life. He isn't looking for signs and wonders, nor requires them to believe God for his life.. Heathens do that. Why this is so is because of the receiving of the Baptism of Jesus Christ which brings the "Promise of the Father" as the "Life giving Spirit" Paul speaks of per 1Cor.15:45 KJV. It brings the Joy and vision that sustains as it did Jesus. Absent that, the church never gets beyond being a program oriented religious body politic, helping itself to the lives of sign seeking folk looking an emotional high to carry them through the week ahead; folk who have been sucked into believing serving the church is same as worshipping God. It all is part of the falling away of the church in these end times.
Side note: Not one of those theologians you mention above is worth their salt for their understanding in what it means to learn God to know Him. They all just have something to say about God, taught them out of commentaries.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

I asked it and you didn't make a proper distinction between the two groups.

Let me say this, a true Pentecostal is more involved with knowing God in an intimate way than he is about anything else in his/her life. He isn't looking for signs and wonders, nor requires them to believe God for his life.. Heathens do that. Why this is so is because of the receiving of the Baptism of Jesus Christ which brings the "Promise of the Father" as the "Life giving Spirit" Paul speaks of per 1Cor.15:45 KJV. It brings the Joy and vision that sustains as it did Jesus. Absent that, the church never gets beyond being a program oriented religious body politic, helping itself to the lives of sign seeking folk looking an emotional high to carry them through the week ahead; folk who have been sucked into believing serving the church is same as worshipping God. It all is part of the falling away of the church in these end times.
Side note: Not one of those theologians you mention above is worth their salt for their understanding in what it means to learn God to know Him. They all just have something to say about God, taught them out of commentaries.

You are entitled to your opinion but the truth of the Gospel is better represented by the people I mentioned, than Jimmy Swaggart Ministries.

 

[andyc]

I believe you are the ignorant one, as a large group of people have tried in vain to point out to you. You have yet to answer many questions posed to you. Why? I guess you can't. And to set the record straight which you appear to be constantly revising, I never said I was a Pentecostal. I said I was a non-Denominational Charismatic. I did not and never have been a part of the Pentecostal denomination.

This thread is about heretical teaching. Yet you hope to sidestep that issue by attacking persons you know nothing about. I guess when you don't have and are not being led by the Holy Spirit, so everything is fair game. Well put up or shut up and quit your whining.

Ive responded to everything.
you havent attempted to explain word faith. Youve attacked media ministers, and now get all upset when I expose you.

And by the way, charismatics are pentecostals.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Show me your power, raise my son from the grave. Tell us how many people you have raised, healed (limbs coming back to life, that kind) or how many you have personally seen have this done.

If you only have testimonies of it, have never witnessed it, ask yourself where the 'power' in your church is. Either they and you have no faith, or its a false teaching.

Matthew 10:8 "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.

When it begins in earnest, you will say it is of the devil because you know nothing about it.

You will be dirty on the Lord because you were not informed, yet you do not believe, so it is your own fault.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Ive responded to everything.
you havent attempted to explain word faith. Youve attacked media ministers, and now get all upset when I expose you.

And by the way, charismatics are pentecostals.

I was watching Rod Parsley today and he seems to think he is anointed when he preaches as he does, and also centers his sermons around money instead of the riches of Christ.

It seems that few ever come to know what the true riches of Christ are.

LA

 

[musterion]

The truth.

Not so far. Just the opposite: you've gone out of your way to not merely excuse but to defend the blasphemous witchcraft of magic words of presumably God-like power...incantations...sorcery.

In practice, you are no different from a Wiccan seeking to tap power and influence events by spoken spells. Only the labels are different; the motivation and means are the same.

 

[Cross Reference]

Not so far. Just the opposite: you've gone out of your way to not merely excuse but to defend the blasphemous witchcraft of magic words of presumably God-like power...incantations...sorcery.

In practice, you are no different from a Wiccan seeking to tap power and influence events by spoken spells. Only the labels are different; the motivation and means are the same.

What makes you believe he is excusing anything but rather warning you to leave it alone?

 

[Cross Reference]

You are entitled to your opinion but the truth of the Gospel is better represented by the people I mentioned, than Jimmy Swaggart Ministries.

Sez you about those "who have a form of godliness but deny His power". Get understanding.

 

[Cross Reference]

duplicate

 

[Cross Reference]

I was watching Rod Parsley today and he seems to think he is anointed when he preaches as he does, and also centers his sermons around money instead of the riches of Christ.

It seems that few ever come to know what the true riches of Christ are.

LA

Indeed and our understanding of the "wheat and tares" should not be to exclude/excuse Pentecostals.