beloved57
Well-known member
You willfully dont understand propitiation !
He is the propitiation for our sins:
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Derf
Well-known member
You willfully don't understand "whole".
Rabbit trail and evasion!
I fully understand propitiation.
You fully refuse to even acknowledge that the scripture says exactly what it says, and not what you want it to say.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes you are, its apparent you have the slightest notion on what propitiation entails !
Derf
Well-known member
@JudgeRightly: I think he just paid you a compliment.
See Derf's comment.
Rabbit trail and evasion!
I fully understand propitiation.
You fully refuse to even acknowledge that the scripture says exactly what it says, and not what you want it to say.
1 John 2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Erroneous interpretation of that verse, common to Calvinists:
And Jesus is not only the propitiation for our sins (the elect here in Jerusalem,) but He is also the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (meaning just the elect throughout the whole world.)
However, in that same chapter even Calvinists must admit that God's use of the word "world" does not mean "the elect."
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
beloved57
Well-known member
I dont see where you understand propitiation ! If you did , you would know 1 Jn 2:2 isnt talking about the whole world of every individual !
The "world" does not refer to Christians. The "world" refers to the enemies of God.
Psalm 17:14
From men which are thy hand, O Lord, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.
Isaiah 13:11
And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Matthew 13:22
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Matthew 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Matthew 18:7
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
John 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
- John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1 John 3:13
Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1 John 4:5
They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Derf
Well-known member
Translation: “I don’t see where you understand ‘x’! If you did, you would agree with me on everything!”
Rabbit trail and evasion!
You fully refuse to even acknowledge that the scripture says exactly what it says, and not what you want it to say.
Scripture:
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. - 1 John 2:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John2:1-2&version=NKJV
Beloved57:
"It doesn't mean the whole world!"
I'm going to trust scripture over you.
The Bible says "Not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world."
Who is "our" referring to? According to your paradigm, it means "the Elect's."
So who else exists apart from "the Elect"? You guessed it, THE WHOLE WORLD!
Or do you really think that there's some other group besides the elect and the rest of the world?
Even your OWN POSITION cannot interpret it any other way without being inconsistent with itself.
It's time for you to take a good hard look at your beliefs and acknowledge the inconsistencies that you keep trying to smooth over.
Derf
Well-known member
And the saints will judge the world. If the elect and the world are the same, then the saints are going to judge the elect—and @beloved57 is choosing not to be part of the saints, apparently.
1 Corinthians 6:2 (KJV)
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
beloved57
Well-known member
Neither one of you understand propitiation !
Derf
Well-known member
Rabbit trail and evasion!
You fully refuse to even acknowledge that the scripture says exactly what it says, and not what you want it to say.
The Bible never uses the term "the world" to refer exclusively to the elect.
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