I think it is evident that Jesus understood God as wind in John chapter 3
Have you learned the shema?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
I think it is evident that Jesus understood God as wind in John chapter 3
I think that Jewish people have recognized that Jesus has not fulfilled any of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures that will definitely identify the Messiah. For example, when the Messiah sits on the throne of David and brings about universal knowledge of God, world peace, and justice and righteous worldwide, everyone will KNOW. Jesus has yet to accomplish this.
I disagree with you. Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?
What exactly is your disagreement?
Do you believe we have peace, justice, righteousness, universal knowledge of God worldwide? I know we do not.
I disagree with your post. Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?
Are your ideas here an obstacle to your belief that Jesus is the Messiah?
TweetyBird
New member
How is it nonsense? Or does it just not do for your magical thinking
While I sit here and watch you all hold a contest to see who has the most fairy tale rendition of interpretation, I choose to remain grounded to reality.
Says you who are depending on mysticism and kabbalah to describe the Almighty. Got it .... :mmph:
TweetyBird
New member
Believers in Christ are not confused about it. The entire NT shows how He fulfilled it. There is no earthly human servant that can take away iniquities, according to the Law of Moses itself. So it's not about the nation of Israel.
It's not mysticism, it's how God revealed Himself. You all have never given it any thought, and don't like anything but your own, completely arbitrary presumption. Calling something 'nonsense' when you're the one being nonsensical is a common trait among those as yourself.
TweetyBird
New member
Jesus was not sent to bring world peace, universal knowledge of God, justice and righteousness worldwide. Those things are for those in Christ, part of His new covenant. Jesus said that all those who believe in Him know God, not those who do not believe in Him. They are in darkness, not the Light.
TweetyBird
New member
You are promoting straight up kabbalah.
No I'm not, I'm promoting sense. And you don't even know what kabbalah really is, apparently.
For people who preach God as a reality, you all sure strive to make Him as much a detached fantasy as you can
You make assertions without providing any Scriptural evidence.
What do you make of this Scripture?
Psalm 49:6-9 KJV
6They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever
9That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.
No man can redeem the soul of another. Not with riches nor with anything else.
Did Jesus measure up to the standard of the Hebrew Scriptures?
Dr James D. Tabor, in his book, “”Restoring Abrahamic Faith””, states…..
“”There are ten basic texts in the Hebrew Prophets, which deal directly and specifically with this figure of the future Davidic King or Messiah.””
Dr Tabor, then quotes his list of ten “jewels” and then makes a very startling assessment of Jesus concerning these Scriptures.
Let’s look at the Scriptures and Dr Tabor’s assessment follows the Scriptures.
Isaiah 9:6-7 (King James Version)
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 11:1-12 (King James Version)
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 16:5 (King James Version)
5And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Jeremiah 23:5-6 (King James Version)
5Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Zechariah 3:8-10 (King James Version)
8Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
Zechariah 6:12-13 (King James Version)
12And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Psalm 110:1-5 (King James Version)
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
Zechariah 9:9-10 (King James Version)
9Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.
10And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
Amos 9:11-12 (King James Version)
11In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
Micah 5:2-4 (King James Version)
2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
3Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
Dr Tabor said…….
“”Finally, despite all the anti-Jewish rhetoric and polemic from the Christians regarding Jesus fulfilling the prophets it is worth noting that he [Jesus] did not fulfill a single one of these messianic passages.”
TweetyBird
New member
No I'm not, I'm promoting sense. And you don't even know what kabbalah really is, apparently.
For people who preach God as a reality, you all sure strive to make Him as much a detached fantasy as you can
That would be your "YHWH is the sound of breathing" aka kabbalah.
and more kabbalah:
"The Jews understood God as a wind or spirit, in a more tangible sense than how He is interpreted today. This wasn't necessarily an exclusive concept either- being in an arid part of the world, sand devils were seen by some as actual deserts, and lamps would produce spirits from certain oils and resins. Like myrrh."
TweetyBird
New member
You make assertions without providing any Scriptural evidence.
What do you make of this Scripture?
Psalm 49:6-9 KJV
6They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever
9That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.
No man can redeem the soul of another. Not with riches nor with anything else.
Yes, that is what the Jewish religion teaches. The NT shows us that Jesus was not just a man, He was also God, manifest in the flesh, without sin. Isa 53 points to a perfect sacrifice.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:8
Spirits are like the wind. God is a spirit.
TweetyBird
New member
That indeed is the Jewish view, but it is not the view of the NT. We believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah who fulfilled all of the prophecies of the OT. The Jewish religion sees it as literal/physical. Most of Christianity sees it as fulfilled spiritually, heavenly, within.
By definition Gods are immortal...so how can that be a sacrifice?
You can assert...but without Scriptural evidence you have nothing.
TweetyBird
New member
That is not even on the same playing field as saying: "the "YHWH is the sound of breathing". You understand that this means the letters, Yod Hey Vav Hey is the breath of God when you speak them out loud. That is esoteric mysticism aka kabbalah. The kabbalists believe that the name of God is actually 72 letters and if one can figure them out, in order, and speak them forth, they have the same creative power as God. It's a dangerous path.