Have you learned the shema?

[TweetyBird]

I do not know what you mean.

The Old covenant is the Mosaic Law given by God to Israel. It is also called the Book of the Law Covenant.

I am a Jew.

You call yourself a Jew because you have convinced yourself that you are a Jew, and now believe that you are --- but it is not fact, it is an illusion.

Why are you asking this question?

Because you talk about Torah instead of Jesus. Paul even said that his Jewish religion [Mosaic Law], his ethnicity - tribal Jewishness, his education - as a Pharisee --- all that, he considered dung in order to apprehend Christ. Have you done this?

 

[Jacob]

The Old covenant is the Mosaic Law given by God to Israel. It is also called the Book of the Law Covenant.

I do not know what you are saying.

You call yourself a Jew because you have convinced yourself that you are a Jew, and now believe that you are --- but it is not fact, it is an illusion.

You are wrong.

Because you talk about Torah instead of Jesus. Paul even said that his Jewish religion [Mosaic Law], his ethnicity - tribal Jewishness, his education - as a Pharisee --- all that, he considered dung in order to apprehend Christ. Have you done this?

I do not understand if you are saying that you have a problem with the Torah. Hopefully you do not.

Shalom.

 

[TweetyBird]

I do not know what you are saying.

What part don't you understand? The covenant with Israel was the 613 commandments.

You are wrong.

You have already admitted that you are not a real Jew. Your "conversion" was fake, someone told you that you are a Jew, and you think you are because you want to be one.

I do not understand if you are saying that you have a problem with the Torah. Hopefully you do not.

Shalom.

How about answering this one, if you can't answer what I asked you. Why do you think Paul said his upbringing was dung and that he only apprehended Christ?

 

[Jacob]

What part don't you understand? The covenant with Israel was the 613 commandments.

That is one view. But when you read the Torah where do you learn of the covenant that God made with the nation of Israel?

You have already admitted that you are not a real Jew. Your "conversion" was fake, someone told you that you are a Jew, and you think you are because you want to be one.

No. I don't know what you are talking about. Sorry. Shalom.

How about answering this one, if you can't answer what I asked you. Why do you think Paul said his upbringing was dung and that he only apprehended Christ?

Please do not speak against the Torah any longer.

 

[TweetyBird]

That is one view.

It's the only view - one that is found in all of Scripture.

But when you read the Torah where do you learn of the covenant that God made with the nation of Israel?

We first read of the old covenant aka the Mosaic Covenant Law in Exodus. It is added to in Lev, Num, and Deut.

No. I don't know what you are talking about. Sorry. Shalom.Please do not speak against the Torah any longer.

Paul said it, not me.

Phil 3
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[Jacob]

It's the only view - one that is found in all of Scripture.

No

We first read of the old covenant aka the Mosaic Covenant Law in Exodus. It is added to in Lev, Num, and Deut.

I see what you are saying. Do you know that the Torah is five books? Where is the covenant God made with the nation of Israel?

Shalom.

Paul said it, not me.

Phil 3
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[musterion]

The Law has no place in the life of dead men raised anew in Christ.

 

[Jacob]

The Law has no place in the life of dead men raised anew in Christ.

You are incorrect.

Have you read the Torah?

 

[musterion]

You are incorrect.

That's what Paul said, heathen.

 

[Jacob]

That's what Paul said, heathen.

I did not know that you were going to respond this way. Perhaps I should have sent you a private message or just said no. However, you can explain your view. I do not agree with what you said.

Shalom.

 

[freelight]

Please answer ......................

Please answer ......................

You are incorrect.

Have you read the Torah?

Let me ask you again since you did NOT respond to my last inquiry on this page here and elsewhere,

Do you agree and accept the apostle Paul's view about the Torah? - this includes all epistles where it seems that Paul discounts the Torah, or at least places faith in Christ (as described in his gospel) above the keeping of the law. Do you accept Paul as a true follower of the Torah, as being a true orthodox Jew? Do you accept Paul's epistles as true representations of Torah honoring teachings?

 

[Jacob]

Let me ask you again since you did NOT respond to my last inquiry on this page here and elsewhere,

Do you agree and accept the apostle Paul's view about the Torah? - this includes all epistles where it seems that Paul discounts the Torah, or at least places faith in Christ (as described in his gospel) above the keeping of the law. Do you accept Paul as a true follower of the Torah, as being a true orthodox Jew? Do you accept Paul's epistles as true representations of Torah honoring teachings?

Do you accept the Torah and Yeshua? Do you believe that Jesus observed and taught the Torah? Then we can talk about Paul.

You must repent and turn to the one true God in faith.

Otherwise you will not be saved.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[freelight]

Consider................

Consider................

Do you accept the Torah and Yeshua?

Do you believe that Jesus observed and taught the Torah? Then we can talk about Paul.

You must repent and turn to the one true God in faith.

Otherwise you will not be saved.

Shalom.

Jacob

I'm trying to discover where you stand with Paul, since there are Torah following believers in Jesus who either accept Paul or reject him more or less, based on teachings they feel are anti-Torah. There is quite a variety among Messianic Jews or Hebraic Roots movement Christians, and such, hence my inquiry.

I personally do not subscribe to the Torah as the One and Only path or revelation for that matter, of 'God'. 'God' is a universal Spirit-Presence. 'God' may be revealed in a particular religious writing or record, but is not necessarily limited to any particular book or religious cult/tradition, etc....since 'God' is INFINITE. 'God' is the one, universal, absolute reality, from which all other realities or conditions of existence spring and are upheld.

You would circumscribe 'God' only to the Torah, and your own narrow de-scriptions or pre-scriptions thereof. Some followers of Jesus would also limit Jesus to being a Torah-Only following Jew, others would give him liberties beyond that subscription. The so called apostle Paul, obviously took liberties in some of his epistles about the law, teaching a 'gospel' that discounts the Torah, and replaces it with a new revelation, a 'new gospel' of grace, based on 'faith' in 'Christ', a more mystical spiritual faith-based tradition, where 'Christ' is more of a deified god-man or cosmic-redeemer-figure, than just merely a human Jewish prophet or Messiah, at least understood in an orthodox Jewish sense.

So much depends on how one interprets all this, and how much they invest any meaning or value in any of it.

 

[Jacob]

I'm trying to discover where you stand with Paul, since there are Torah following believers in Jesus who either accept Paul or reject him more or less, based on teachings they feel are anti-Torah. There is quite a variety among Messianic Jews or Hebraic Roots movement Christians, and such, hence my inquiry.

I personally do not subscribe to the Torah as the One and Only path or revelation for that matter, of 'God'. 'God' is a universal Spirit-Presence. 'God' may be revealed in a particular religious writing or record, but is not necessarily limited to any particular book or religious cult/tradition, etc....since 'God' is INFINITE. 'God' is the one, universal, absolute reality, from which all other realities or conditions of existence spring and are upheld.

You would circumscribe 'God' only to the Torah, and your own narrow de-scriptions or pre-scriptions thereof. Some followers of Jesus would also limit Jesus to being a Torah-Only following Jew, others would give him liberties beyond that subscription. The so called apostle Paul, obviously took liberties in some of his epistles about the law, teaching a 'gospel' that discounts the Torah, and replaces it with a new revelation, a 'new gospel' of grace, based on 'faith' in 'Christ', a more mystical spiritual faith-based tradition, where 'Christ' is more of a deified god-man or cosmic-redeemer-figure, than just merely a human Jewish prophet or Messiah, at least understood in an orthodox Jewish sense.

So much depends on how one interprets all this, and how much they invest any meaning or value in any of it.

No. You are incorrect.

Why are you asking about Paul?

There is the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.

Why not read the Torah?

 

[freelight]

No. You are incorrect.

Why are you asking about Paul?

There is the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.

Why not read the Torah?

I've just explained why I asked you about Paul. Why cant you understand the inquiry and answer the question?

 

[Jacob]

I've just explained why I asked you about Paul. Why cant you understand the inquiry and answer the question?

Because Paul was not the first person to go to the Gentiles but you have a fascination with him. Do you worship the one true God?

 

[freelight]

Because Paul was not the first person to go to the Gentiles but you have a fascination with him.

You still have not answered my question.

Do you worship the one true God?

Of course, since my own 'conscious being' exists, lives and breathes, because of 'God'.

 

[freelight]

Because Paul was not the first person to go to the Gentiles but you have a fascination with him.

If you believe the whole Bible, as canonized by 'christians',...then Paul is a very important personality in the NT,.....do you believe his gospel?

 

[Jacob]

You still have not answered my question.

Have you read Matthew through Revelation or Paul's writings (his letters or epistles)?

Of course, since my own 'conscious being' exists, lives and breathes, because of 'God'.

I do not understand what you are saying, and I have read the Bible.

 

[Jacob]

If you believe the whole Bible, as canonized by 'christians',...then Paul is a very important personality in the NT,.....do you believe his gospel?

Do you accept the TaNaKh? I don't know that I understand your question. I do accept Matthew through Revelation.

You should read the Torah.

Jesus observed and taught the Torah.

As a Jew I follow Him.

Did you know that Paul is a Jew?