Have you learned the shema?

[Jacob]

Yes. You are refusing to even grasp what the NT is about. The Mosaic Law was a burden, a yoke. It was a shadow - dark - no light - bondage - caused Israel to sin - it caused their death. It was incomplete, faulty, carnal. It served its purpose and when Jesus died, He said "It is Finished". The veil of the Temple was rent in 2. God reconciled us to Himself through the blood of Christ. The Levitical priesthood served its purpose - it is gone, there is no Temple but Jesus, there is no priesthood to oversee the Mosaic Law Covenant. We are in a brand new Priesthood - of Melchizedek. The Mosaic Law ceased its work. Jesus fulfilled it all, He satisfied every bit of it. Now we have a new Law, new commandments that He taught us that we carry out through His Spirit, life giving Water and Manna from Heaven. "Torah" can do none of that, not one jot or tittle is useful any more. All we need to know and comprehend is Jesus Christ, carry our crosses, walk in His Spirit, and live for Him by serving others.

No

 

[TweetyBird]

When did God nail do not murder, do not commit adultery to the cross? :dizzy: 2 Ti 2:15 You change. :zman: God does not (Mal 3:6). oly:

The new covenant Laws and commandments are not the same as found in the old covenant. They are brand new - lust is the same as adultery, hatred of others is the same as murder.

God does change. He gave the commandment to Israel to sacrifice animals so their blood could atone for sin. When Jesus came, He changed that to a once and for all atonement for sin, forever, in Christ. God changes not in character and reputation. But He does change His mind. He did it often in the OT.

 

[serpentdove]

[Mt 5:18 When did God nail do not murder, do not commit adultery to the cross? 2 Ti 2:15 You change. God does not (Mal 3:6). ] The new covenant Laws and commandments are not the same as found in the old covenant...

:chz4brnz:

Drink up.

Fornicate on.

Re 22:11

 

[TweetyBird]

No

Yes, you constantly talk "Torah". It was the ends to the goal. It has ceased its work. It can do nothing to help us see Christ, know Christ, follow Christ, have faith in Christ, believe in Christ. And if that old covenant cannot reveal Christ - it has no value but to show us what once was and why God canceled it, and made way for a new covenant. This is all repeated in the NT, many times, but you refuse to see it.

Go ahead and keep saying no. I will come back every time and tell the Good News of Jesus Christ, who is our All in all.

 

[TweetyBird]

:chz4brnz:

Drink up.

Fornicate on.

Re 22:11

Col 2
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Eph 2
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Gal 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[serpentdove]

[:chz4brnz:] Gal 5
19...

Mt 5:19

"B. The children (5:19–26)
1. The fruit of the flesh (5:19–21): Immorality, idolatry, hatred, discord, selfish ambition, envy, drunkenness, etc.
2. The fruit of the Spirit (5:22–26): Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ga 5:16–26). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers

 

[Jacob]

Yes, you constantly talk "Torah". It was the ends to the goal. It has ceased its work. It can do nothing to help us see Christ, know Christ, follow Christ, have faith in Christ, believe in Christ. And if that old covenant cannot reveal Christ - it has no value but to show us what once was and why God canceled it, and made way for a new covenant. This is all repeated in the NT, many times, but you refuse to see it.

Go ahead and keep saying no. I will come back every time and tell the Good News of Jesus Christ, who is our All in all.

TweetyBird,

I again need to say no here.

There is something in what you are saying that reveals a lack of understanding.

 

[TweetyBird]

Mt 5:19

"B. The children (5:19–26)
1. The fruit of the flesh (5:19–21): Immorality, idolatry, hatred, discord, selfish ambition, envy, drunkenness, etc.
2. The fruit of the Spirit (5:22–26): Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ga 5:16–26). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers

Your point? Never mind, actually. You just post obscure random stuff instead of dialoguing.

 

[TweetyBird]

TweetyBird,

I again need to say no here.

There is something in what you are saying that reveals a lack of understanding.

The is no misunderstanding. You want life to be about Torah, when Life is in Jesus. Do you know what He said to the Jews?

John 5
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[serpentdove]

...You just post obscure random stuff...

:yawn: Jn 8:37

 

[TweetyBird]

:yawn: Jn 8:37

:kookoo:

 

[serpentdove]

:kookoo:

:yawn: 2 Ti 1:7

 

[Jacob]

The is no misunderstanding. You want life to be about Torah, when Life is in Jesus. Do you know what He said to the Jews?

John 5
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Do you know Matthew 5:17-20 NASB?

 

[freelight]

The 'Christ' is Universal........

The 'Christ' is Universal........

Do you know Matthew 5:17-20 NASB?

Of course, but you have to see that Paul did not support this view of the Torah and the prophets, and instead introduced his own gospel of grace,....you do realize this don't you? On that note, it becomes a problem or challenge on how to 'reconcile' or 'resolve' the tensions between the gospel that Jesus taught, with the gospel that Paul taught, and MAD is one viewpoint used by some here to explain that tension (saying Jesus taught under the Mosaic dispensation, while Paul under the dispensation of grace, etc.).

While you can use Matthew to support a Torah-loving Jesus, some other gospel accounts show Jesus being not so rigidly dogmatic to Jewish customs or laws,...it depends on what gospel accounts, traditions or legends you prefer - apparently Jesus did quote and confirm the Shema,...accepting the universal truth of God's singular sovereignty and oneness of nature, being the sole individual Identity of DEITY, the One Universal Father-Mother of all. So, we come back to the central proclamation of the Shema! Yes,..."hear oh people of God, the Lord our God, the Lord of all is ONE". - we can paraphrase this in different ways, but the truth of God's ONENESS holds. This 'God' is the universal Creator, not only of the physical or racial nation of 'Israel', but all who recognize their sonship with God, thru the inner Christ, who is the divine light, intelligence and love within the soul

Paul's gospel universalizes and synthesizes the 'Christ' figure, using this life-giving spirit as that which indwells BOTH Jew and Gentile, all peoples who are Spirit-born...since in 'Christ' all are one. So you see,....the orthodox Jew has no monopoly on truth, although hes welcome to stay in his traditional box and prescribed theology, if you will. Truth is universal, although informed and described in various ways or conceptual patterns. 'God' is One, forms are many

 

[freelight]

TweetyBird,

I again need to say no here.

There is something in what you are saying that reveals a lack of understanding.

If I may chime in again,....Do you recognize Paul as a true apostle of Jesus? or an imposter, or just someone who brought a new gospel to the table, related but different dispensationally? As noted earlier, there are different views on this, some rejecting Paul altogether as a false apostle. Others try to resolve any tensions thru various explanations about Paul's anti-law disposition. What is your opinion of Paul being an apostle of Jesus? Is he? and if he is, how do you explain his rejection or 'interpretation' of the law?

 

[Jacob]

Of course, but you have to see that Paul did not support this view of the Torah and the prophets, and instead introduced his own gospel of grace,....you do realize this don't you? On that note, it becomes a problem or challenge on how to 'reconcile' or 'resolve' the tensions between the gospel that Jesus taught, with the gospel that Paul taught, and MAD is one viewpoint used by some here to explain that tension (saying Jesus taught under the Mosaic dispensation, while Paul under the dispensation of grace, etc.).

While you can use Matthew to support a Torah-loving Jesus, some other gospel accounts show Jesus being not so rigidly dogmatic to Jewish customs or laws,...it depends on what gospel accounts, traditions or legends you prefer - apparently Jesus did quote and confirm the Shema,...accepting the universal truth of God's singular sovereignty and oneness of nature, being the sole individual Identity of DEITY, the One Universal Father-Mother of all. So, we come back to the central proclamation of the Shema! Yes,..."hear oh people of God, the Lord our God, the Lord of all is ONE". - we can paraphrase this in different ways, but the truth of God's ONENESS holds. This 'God' is the universal Creator, not only of the physical or racial nation of 'Israel', but all who recognize their sonship with God, thru the inner Christ, who is the divine light, intelligence and love within the soul

Paul's gospel universalizes and synthesizes the 'Christ' figure, using this life-giving spirit as that which indwells BOTH Jew and Gentile, all peoples who are Spirit-born...since in 'Christ' all are one. So you see,....the orthodox Jew has no monopoly on truth, although hes welcome to stay in his traditional box and prescribed theology, if you will. Truth is universal, although informed and described in various ways or conceptual patterns. 'God' is One, forms are many

No

 

[Jacob]

If I may chime in again,....Do you recognize Paul as a true apostle of Jesus? or an imposter, or just someone who brought a new gospel to the table, related but different dispensationally? As noted earlier, there are different views on this, some rejecting Paul altogether as a false apostle. Others try to resolve any tensions thru various explanations about Paul's anti-law disposition. What is your opinion of Paul being an apostle of Jesus? Is he? and if he is, how do you explain his rejection or 'interpretation' of the law?

I have sent you a private message about this.

I actually do not understand your question.

Also, you are responding to a post that was for someone else.

My answer is no.

 

[freelight]

Jesus only? or do we accept Paul's gospel TOO? Do they agree?

Jesus only? or do we accept Paul's gospel TOO? Do they agree?

I have sent you a private message about this.

I actually do not understand your question.

Also, you are responding to a post that was for someone else.

My answer is no.

Its pretty clear Jacob, for anyone with at least high school reading skills. I'd encourage you to read a little more carefully, if I wasn't clear enough. It regards Jesus words in the gospels about being pro-Torah, compared to Paul's anti-Torah stance presented in the gospel he preached. Do you regard Paul as a disciple of Jesus, and a true follower of Torah? - or he is his own brand of disciple or a false apostle?

See here - Jesus words only - this site focuses on keeping to Jesus words only, while recognizing Paul as an imposter apostle, because of his clearly anti-Torah stance and other teachings which contradict what Jesus and the original 12 apostles taught and lived. Now could you attend to the questions asked of you?

 

[freelight]

No

Your "No" does not negate the fact that passages also have an esoteric and allegorical meaning behind them. As I've shared about the Shema, it can also be understood to be a universal salutation to the fact of the divine Oneness of the Creator, and that all sons of God (Israel) that recognize the divine Creator who is indivisible, have a share in his kingdom and glory. That's one primary significance of the Shema!

 

[Zeke]

Its pretty clear Jacob, for anyone with at least high school reading skills. I'd encourage you to read a little more carefully, if I wasn't clear enough. It regards Jesus words in the gospels about being pro-Torah, compared to Paul's anti-Torah stance presented in the gospel he preached. Do you regard Paul as a disciple of Jesus, and a true follower of Torah? - or he is his own brand of disciple or a false apostle?

See here - Jesus words only - this site focuses on keeping to Jesus words only, while recognizing Paul as an imposter apostle, because of his clearly anti-Torah stance and other teachings which contradict what Jesus and the original 12 apostles taught and lived. Now could you attend to the questions asked of you?

Some muddy water here Freelight, Paul wasn't anti Torah except for the letter of it 2Cor 3:6, Clearly you have a Bias against Paul that bubbles to the surface once and while.