ECT HAVE YOU DRANK JESUS BODY AND BLOOD ??

[User Name]

And do we not all eat that same spiritual meat? and do we not all drink that same spiritual drink? and are we not all made to drink into the same one Spirit? (1Cor 10:3-4, 1Cor 12:13). Therefore it concerns eating the spiritual food of the Word, which is also likened unto Living Water, which is also the blood of our atonement; cleansing the man from the inside, for that holy Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts was purchased with the price of his own innocent blood: signed, sealed by the Father, and delivered, having been offered up as a willing sacrifice to whosoever will come and drink of the fountain of the water of life freely.

I'm not sure that one can equate "living water" with "the blood of our atonement." Seems to me that the water and the blood are separate substances. John 19:34 and 1 John 5:6 distinguishes between them.

A careful reading of John 6 shows that Jesus was fully prepared to have all of his followers abandon him, if it came to that, over his claim that he was giving them his flesh to eat. Never once did he say to his followers, "Hey, don't go, I was only speaking in a symbolic or spiritual sense. I didn't literally mean what I actually said!"

Paul also reiterates the Real Presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper whenever he spoke of it.

This was also confessed by all Christian leaders after the time of the Apostles, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, John Chrysostom, Augustine, etc. For example:

Ignatius of Antioch: "Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

Justin Martyr: "This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."

Irenaeus: "So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

John Chrysostom: "It is not the power of man which makes what is put before us the Body and Blood of Christ, but the power of Christ Himself who was crucified for us. The priest standing there in the place of Christ says these words but their power and grace are from God. 'This is My Body,' he says, and these words transform what lies before him."

Augustine: "You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. The chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ."

Many more quotes here: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

 

[daqq]

I'm not sure that one can equate "living water" with "the blood of our atonement." Seems to me that the water and the blood are separate substances. John 19:34 and 1 John 5:6 distinguishes between them.

A careful reading of John 6 shows that Jesus was fully prepared to have all of his followers abandon him, if it came to that, over his claim that he was giving them his flesh to eat. Never once did he say to his followers, "Hey, don't go, I was only speaking in a symbolic or spiritual sense. I didn't literally mean what I actually said!"

Paul also reiterates the Real Presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper whenever he spoke of it.

This was also confessed by all Christian leaders after the time of the Apostles, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, John Chrysostom, Augustine, etc. For example:

Ignatius of Antioch: "Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

Justin Martyr: "This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."

Irenaeus: "So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

John Chrysostom: "It is not the power of man which makes what is put before us the Body and Blood of Christ, but the power of Christ Himself who was crucified for us. The priest standing there in the place of Christ says these words but their power and grace are from God. 'This is My Body,' he says, and these words transform what lies before him."

Augustine: "You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. The chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ."

Many more quotes here: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

King David already did so for me; that is why I referenced his words first:

I can only assume that you meant to say, "have you eaten (and drank)", but yes, because the Testimony of Messiah is Spirit, (John 6:63). Therefore, every time I open the scripture, (and especially when I open up the Gospel accounts), the Master breaks bread with me, and I eat and drink with my eyes; both the Bread of Life and the Living Water, because the Living Water is also the Testimony of Messiah which was purchased by his own blood: for he paid for that Testimony which was sealed by the Father, and given to him from above, with his own life and blood. And when the Testimony is purchased with the price of innocent blood then the Testimony becomes the spiritual equivalent to the blood which paid for that Testimony, (see also 2Sam 23:15, 16, 17, 1Chr 11:17, 18, 19). The ears also can eat because when you hear the Word being read aloud you are consuming the spiritual food by way of hearing with the ear. Take heed therefore how you hear what you hear, (Luke 8:18).

2 Samuel 23:14-17 KJV
14 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.
15 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!
16 And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD.
17 And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

1 Chronicles 11:15-19 KJV
15 Now three of the thirty captains went down to the rock to David, into the cave of Adullam; and the host of the Philistines encamped in the valley of Rephaim.
16 And David was then in the hold, and the Philistines' garrison was then at Bethlehem.
17 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, that is at the gate!
18 And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: but David would not drink of it, but poured it out to the LORD,
19 And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with the jeopardy of their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.

So maybe you are not sure you can make that association but I do not need to do it myself because king David and the Word already did it for me.

 

[User Name]

King David already did so for me; that is why I referenced his words first:




2 Samuel 23:14-17 KJV
14 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.
15 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!
16 And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD.
17 And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

1 Chronicles 11:15-19 KJV
15 Now three of the thirty captains went down to the rock to David, into the cave of Adullam; and the host of the Philistines encamped in the valley of Rephaim.
16 And David was then in the hold, and the Philistines' garrison was then at Bethlehem.
17 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, that is at the gate!
18 And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: but David would not drink of it, but poured it out to the LORD,
19 And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with the jeopardy of their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.

So maybe you are not sure you can make that association but I do not need to do it myself because king David and the Word already did it for me.

Be that as it may, a careful reading of John 6 shows that Jesus was fully prepared to have all of his followers abandon him, if it came to that, over his claim that he was giving them his flesh to eat. Never once did he say to his followers, "Hey, don't go, I was only speaking in a symbolic or spiritual sense. I didn't literally mean what I actually said!"

Paul also reiterates the Real Presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper whenever he spoke of it.

This was also confessed by all Christian leaders after the time of the Apostles, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, John Chrysostom, Augustine, etc. For example:

Ignatius of Antioch: "Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

Justin Martyr: "This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."

Irenaeus: "So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

John Chrysostom: "It is not the power of man which makes what is put before us the Body and Blood of Christ, but the power of Christ Himself who was crucified for us. The priest standing there in the place of Christ says these words but their power and grace are from God. 'This is My Body,' he says, and these words transform what lies before him."

Augustine: "You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. The chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ."

Many more quotes here: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

 

[daqq]

Be that as it may, a careful reading of John 6 shows that Jesus was fully prepared to have all of his followers abandon him, if it came to that, over his claim that he was giving them his flesh to eat. Never once did he say to his followers, "Hey, don't go, I was only speaking in a symbolic or spiritual sense. I didn't literally mean what I actually said!"

Primary context for this discussion: manna from the heavens, John 6:31-51.

Deuteronomy 8:3 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
3 And he afflicted thee and straitened thee with hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thy fathers knew not; that he might teach thee that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God shall man live.

Manna = the Word of Elohim, (including all Torah references and John 6:31-51).

If this is not first understood then there is no need to even try to explain the blood.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Be that as it may, a careful reading of John 6 shows that Jesus was fully prepared to have all of his followers abandon him, if it came to that, over his claim that he was giving them his flesh to eat. Never once did he say to his followers, "Hey, don't go, I was only speaking in a symbolic or spiritual sense. I didn't literally mean what I actually said!"

Paul also reiterates the Real Presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper whenever he spoke of it.

This was also confessed by all Christian leaders after the time of the Apostles, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, John Chrysostom, Augustine, etc. For example:

Ignatius of Antioch: "Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

Justin Martyr: "This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."

Irenaeus: "So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

John Chrysostom: "It is not the power of man which makes what is put before us the Body and Blood of Christ, but the power of Christ Himself who was crucified for us. The priest standing there in the place of Christ says these words but their power and grace are from God. 'This is My Body,' he says, and these words transform what lies before him."

Augustine: "You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. The chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ."

Many more quotes here: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

Roman Catholicism.

the worship of the sun god.

LA

 

[User Name]

Roman Catholicism.

the worship of the sun god.

LA

Malachi 4:2
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.