Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Isn't he descended from Shem?
Has the Church Replaced Israel ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
It means all men are Gentiles.
Just as there are Irish Gentiles and English Gentiles, Hutu Gentiles and Tutsi Gentiles, Ukrainian Gentiles and Russian Gentiles, Israeli Gentiles and Syrian Gentiles, all men sprang from the same seed.
The only thing the church is not part of, is this world.
We are no longer of Adam's seed, as we have been reborn of God's seed.
So, has the church replaced Israel?
Yes, as we have sidelined everybody.
He descended from Adam.
Right Divider
Body part
There is no such thing as an Israeli Gentile. God separated Israel from all other people.
Lev 20:22-26 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) ¶ Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. (20:23) And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. (20:24) But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people. (20:25) Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. (20:26) And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD [am] holy, and have severed you from [other] people, that ye should be mine.
You are referring to the nation of Israel.
And in the OT.
In the NT, Israeli and Gentile believers are all one in Christ.
Now, their, and our separation is from the world.
From sin and all wickedness.
Thanks be to God !
beloved57
Well-known member
The Church is Israel because Christ loved and died for the same exact people. Now most dispensationalist believe the Book of Revelation is written to the jews and not the Church, So they apply Rev 1:5-6 to the jews
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Now practically the same thing is said about Christ Church whom He Loved and gave Himself for her sins and washed Eph 5:25-26
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Now practically the same thing is said about Christ Church whom He Loved and gave Himself for her sins and washed Eph 5:25-26
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Good citing.
As I consider the OP's question some more, I have decided that the "church" is better than Israel ever was.
The nation of Israel walked after the flesh, but the "church" can walk after the Spirit...something the Israelites could not do.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Church is Israel because through it as promised all the seed of Israel is Justified in the Lord Isa 45:25
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified and shall glory.
Now we know that both jew and gentile believers are of the one seed of Abraham, the seed of Faith Rom 4:16-18
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be
Now God has Justified the seed of Israel by the Justifying both jew and gentile by Faith according to promise,
Rom 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Now this fulfills the promise of Isa 45:25
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified and shall glory.
Now we know that both jew and gentile believers are of the one seed of Abraham, the seed of Faith Rom 4:16-18
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be
Now God has Justified the seed of Israel by the Justifying both jew and gentile by Faith according to promise,
Rom 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Now this fulfills the promise of Isa 45:25
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Not so!
Gotquestions.org
Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant. As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate.
Actually, we are all of Isaac's seed...not Abraham's.
Don't comprehend what you read? If what you say is so, show scripture.
I do.
It is written..."Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." (Rom 9:7)
Have you been reborn of the seed of God? (1 John 3:9)
7djengo7
This space intentionally left blank
Whom do you mean by "gentiles"? Most people mean people who are not Jews.
So, by this bizarre phrase of yours, do you mean: "Israeli [people who are not Jews]"?
So, since Jews are not gentiles, Jews are not men?
The times of separation from certain men by the Jews is over.
We can now count all men as our brothers in Christ.
The only ones who still separate themselves from Gentiles, or any other subset of men, are the Israelites who still hold to the OT Law of Moses and the traditions of men.
As we were all one family of Adam, now we are one family of Christ...unless you are still keeping the Mosaic Law.
beloved57
Well-known member
To be honest, since the death of Christ national israel lost its covenant distinction as the people of God, no longer being the physical descendant of national israel was representative of Gods people, this foretold by Jesus Himself Matt 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
This nation the Kingdom of God is given to is the Church, the Body of Christ which is comprised of all ethnic groups to include jews, africans, germans, hispanics and so forth, so Israel is being saved during the times of the gentiles when racial distinctions have been done away with in Christ. The Kingdom of God distinction that national israel had is gone, permanently and given permanently to the Church Matt 16:18
. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Again the Church Christ is building is that Spiritual Nation bringing forth the fruits thereof of the Kingdom of God taken from national ethnic israel.
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
This nation the Kingdom of God is given to is the Church, the Body of Christ which is comprised of all ethnic groups to include jews, africans, germans, hispanics and so forth, so Israel is being saved during the times of the gentiles when racial distinctions have been done away with in Christ. The Kingdom of God distinction that national israel had is gone, permanently and given permanently to the Church Matt 16:18
. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Again the Church Christ is building is that Spiritual Nation bringing forth the fruits thereof of the Kingdom of God taken from national ethnic israel.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Yes but the leaders of the Church back then were the Apostles, and they were each flesh-and-blood descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That was a real distinction when the Church was in infancy. That distinction is gone now, but it was very clear back in the Apostolic era.
The Church's first leaders (the Twelve Apostles) were of national ethnic Israel.
Right Divider
Body part
That "church" is not the body of Christ. That "church" is Israel, which as not in its infancy.
Acts 7:38 (AKJV/PCE)
(7:38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
The church, the body of Christ, does not have twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matt 19:28 (AKJV/PCE)
(19:28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:30 (AKJV/PCE)
(22:30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
You need to get with the program, God's program. Paul tells you all about it in his epistles; you need to listen.
beloved57
Well-known member
The first leaders were Spiritual Israel, the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, the Body of Christ. The Apostles were part of Christs Body. Their natural heritage and connection to Israel/Abraham was dung !
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
beloved57
Well-known member
Long as you understand their being Abrahams Spiritual Seed had nothing to with their ethnicity, it was strictly grace of election.