Guns!

[Eric h]

Why didn't Jesus tell his disciples to dispose of all their swords?

If they had no swords, Jesus could not tell them not to use a sword.

If they had no swords, the disciples would have said to themselves, if only we had swords, we could have defended our Lord. Jesus showed his disciples how not to use a sword, it was now up to them as to what they should do in the future.

Jesus did things for a purpose, and often they are beyond our understanding.

My 2c.

 

[Idolater]

If they had no swords, Jesus could not tell them not to use a sword.

In the UK, does anyone you know have guns?----ah ... I mean "swords?" Are you allowed to carry a gun in the UK? You personally? but also, is anyone?

If they had no swords, the disciples would have said to themselves, if only we had swords, we could have defended our Lord. Jesus showed his disciples how not to use a sword, it was now up to them as to what they should do in the future.

Yes. It was necessary for them all to be killed, rather than to defend themselves. If they had defended themselves, then this faith of ours would have died on the vine. Jesus said to His Apostles, the seed has to die and be buried in order to yield a harvest. But that doesn't transfer to me today being called to neglect to defend my neighbors. I'm instructed to love my neighbors. Standing by while they are mauled by a bear, without shooting at the bear to protect my neighbor, is not loving my neighbor at all.

 

[Eric h]

Why didn't Jesus tell his disciples to dispose of all their swords?

Jesus knew how the story was going to end. The question you should ask is, why did Jesus say bring two swords, when he knew he was going to tell them not to use a sword.

 

[Eric h]

In the UK, does anyone you know have guns?----ah ... I mean "swords?"

I've known a couple of farmers who had shotguns. When I was younger, I was jumped by a group of lads, one held a knife to my throat. I lived through that experience.

But that doesn't transfer to me today being called to neglect to defend my neighbors. I'm instructed to love my neighbors

I do that regularly, but with no weapons, no protective equipment, no self defence. I am 74, and I know I am the weakest and most defenceless person during any of the violent conflicts I encounter. We give thanks, that in fifteen years of doing this, none of us have been hurt.

On two occasions, late at night, I have asked people to hand me their knife, they did. I have lost count of the number of times I have walked in the middle of angry, drunken violent fights. On one occasion there were forty plus, and a lad had his face ripped open by a broken bottle. Last Friday night as the pubs shut, we spent over an hour with a group of angry drunk lads, fortunately, we were there before it escalated. A peaceful outcome was a long drawn out affair.

Yes. It was necessary for them all to be killed, rather than to defend themselves. If they had defended themselves, then this faith of ours would have died on the vine. Jesus said to His Apostles, the seed has to die and be buried in order to yield a harvest.

There were many other occasions during the ministry of Jesus, when he could have said bring swords. But none are mentioned. Why then; did Jesus only say bring swords on the one occasion they were not to be used.

 

[ok doser]

Prom queen or biker babe?

 

[ok doser]

"True freedom is not possible unless people are safe"

 

[Eric h]

Prom queen or biker babe?

You can post videos of fun - loving gun owners, but how do you justify this using the teachings of Jesus?

During the ministry of Jesus, there was only one time when he told his disciples to carry a sword. Jesus knew how the story was going to end. The question you should ask is, why did Jesus say bring two swords, when he knew, he was going to tell them not to use a sword.

There were many other occasions; during the ministry of Jesus, when he could have said; bring swords. But none are mentioned. Why then; did Jesus only say bring swords on the one occasion they were not to be used.

 

[Jefferson]

You can post videos of fun - loving gun owners, but how do you justify this using the teachings of Jesus?

During the ministry of Jesus, there was only one time when he told his disciples to carry a sword. Jesus knew how the story was going to end. The question you should ask is, why did Jesus say bring two swords, when he knew, he was going to tell them not to use a sword.

There were many other occasions; during the ministry of Jesus, when he could have said; bring swords. But none are mentioned. Why then; did Jesus only say bring swords on the one occasion they were not to be used.

Let me guess. You're against capital punishment. Yes?

 

[JudgeRightly]

That's what Peter did, he took his sword out to protect Jesus.

Because Peter, in case you weren't aware, was a bit of a coward.

Cowards can still do the right things for the wrong reasons.

Jesus practiced what he preached.

What did He preach?

Not pacifism.

Not "give up your weapons."

There were opportunities in his ministry for Jesus to carry a sword for his defence, but he never did.

So what?

When it came time to use a sword in his defence, he said, put the sword away.

And what was the context of that command?

He was about to go to the cross. Resisting would only delay that.

If it were the case that He doesn't want people to be armed, then He wouldn't have told them to carry a sword to begin with.

Jesus showed us the greater good path, whilst on the cross, he prayed Father forgive them.

Ignoring the context again.

What was He asking the Father to forgive them of?

Use scripture.

The disciples witnessed the ordeal Jesus went through. They had a first hand understanding of what swords and forgiveness meant to Jesus.

More ignoring of the context.

Would they ever carry a sword again, and use it in their defence?

I doubt they ever went anywhere unarmed. Highway thieves were very common in those times.

Swords, like divorce are allowed, but they are not the greatest good option.

Of course if we lived in a perfect world, neither divorce nor swords would be needed.

But we don't, so they are.

God tells us that the only reason people should be getting a divorce is because of sexual immorality.

And because men are evil, and some even seek to take the lives of the innocent, God recognizes that the innocent need to defend themselves.

If they had no swords, Jesus could not tell them not to use a sword.

Of course He could tell them to not use swords without them first owning a sword!

Using your reasoning, God couldn't tell anyone to not commit murder without them first killing someone, or to not commit adultery without them first destroying their family!

What backwards thinking!

God does not tell people to do things that are evil.

If they had no swords, the disciples would have said to themselves, if only we had swords, we could have defended our Lord.

Still ignoring the context.

They were ignorant of the fact that He INTENDED to be killed.

Jesus showed his disciples how not to use a sword,

No, He was making sure they didn't interfere with His plan of going to the cross.

He wasn't condemning the use of a sword, else He would have never told them to go out and buy one in the first place!

it was now up to them as to what they should do in the future.

Wrong.

Jesus did things for a purpose,

Yes, He did.

It wasn't for the purpose you seem to think.

and often they are beyond our understanding.

As if that completely justifies your position.

Newsflash, it doesn't!

My 2c.

Your two cents are worth nothing.

Jesus knew how the story was going to end.

Rather, He was going to bring about the ending He wanted.

The question you should ask is, why did Jesus say bring two swords, when he knew he was going to tell them not to use a sword.

Hmm, I wonder if Luke 22:37 has anything to do with this...

Along with literally everything else he had been teaching them for the past three years...

 

[Yorzhik]

You can post videos of fun - loving gun owners, but how do you justify this using the teachings of Jesus?

During the ministry of Jesus, there was only one time when he told his disciples to carry a sword. Jesus knew how the story was going to end. The question you should ask is, why did Jesus say bring two swords, when he knew, he was going to tell them not to use a sword.

There were many other occasions; during the ministry of Jesus, when he could have said; bring swords. But none are mentioned. Why then; did Jesus only say bring swords on the one occasion they were not to be used.

The settled view strikes again!

Jesus didn't want swords when he needed to sacrifice Himself, except when He did. It was a special circumstance to make a point, not anything to do with self defense. His discussion of swords had, in general, nothing to do with how we conduct our lives today.

In general, God wants us to defend ourselves because we need to defend the innocent around us starting with our family and then or neighbors. And we have to protect ourselves so we can uphold our responsibilities to those around us.

Don't be so harmless as a dove that you stop being clever as a serpent. Guns are a great tool and you should encourage Christians to have and train with them.

 

[Eric h]

I doubt they ever went anywhere unarmed. Highway thieves were very common in those times.

This might be the case in America today. Did Jesus ever carry a sword? At the end of Jesus’s ministry, only two of his disciples had swords. Meaning the majority went around without a sword. The only time swords are used during the ministry of Jesus, he told them to put the swords away.

Guns are a great tool and you should encourage Christians to have and train with them.

You are telling Christians what to do. When does Jesus tell his disciples to train with swords? They were the guns of the day.

 

[Nick M]

Did Jesus ever carry a sword?

It proceeds from his mouth. Is anyone astonished at those perishing, who pour gasoline on themselves at they burn. I tilt my head as much as my Lab these days at people's stupidity.

 

[ok doser]

When does Jesus tell his disciples to train with swords?

Luke 22:36 doesn't explicitly tell them to "train" with swords, but it does tell them to "buy one".


Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

 

[ok doser]

It proceeds from his mouth. Is anyone astonished at those perishing, who pour gasoline on themselves at they burn. I tilt my head as much as my Lab these days at people's stupidity.

I don't usually bother engaging with people like Eric h here. They are much like liberals in that they are close-minded and impervious to reason or logic

 

[Idolater]

I've known a couple of farmers who had shotguns. When I was younger, I was jumped by a group of lads, one held a knife to my throat. I lived through that experience.



I do that regularly, but with no weapons, no protective equipment, no self defence. I am 74, and I know I am the weakest and most defenceless person during any of the violent conflicts I encounter. We give thanks, that in fifteen years of doing this, none of us have been hurt.

On two occasions, late at night, I have asked people to hand me their knife, they did. I have lost count of the number of times I have walked in the middle of angry, drunken violent fights. On one occasion there were forty plus, and a lad had his face ripped open by a broken bottle. Last Friday night as the pubs shut, we spent over an hour with a group of angry drunk lads, fortunately, we were there before it escalated. A peaceful outcome was a long drawn out affair.



There were many other occasions during the ministry of Jesus, when he could have said bring swords. But none are mentioned. Why then; did Jesus only say bring swords on the one occasion they were not to be used.

Was your father a WWII vet Eric?

What was his opinion on the Japanese at the end of the war?

Did he think they should have surrendered sooner? or did he think America should have just quit fighting, packed up and gone home? Or did he think the Bombs were a gift from God?

Fact is, whenever someone wants to do something violent or gravely rights violating, facts don't stop them. But sometimes guns do. And the biggest guns we have are called nuclear bombs. And America and Russia have tons of nuclear bombs, but also France and England and China have them, plus Pakistan and India, and there are others, but apparently, it's possible, that now North Korea has nuclear bombs, and Iran keeps working on getting nuclear bombs.

What do you think should be done? Just lay down our swords and let China and North Korea and Iran have nuclear bombs? What would your father think? Would he agree with you?

 

[ok doser]

"Never underestimate Joe's ability to f(oul) things up"

Barry (the Kenyan) Sotero

 

[Eric h]

Luke 22:36 doesn't explicitly tell them to "train" with swords, but it does tell them to "buy one".

And the reason Jesus doesn’t ask them to train with a sword, is because he is going to tell them not to use one. In John’s Gospel, Jesus knew in advance what was going to happen.

In Luke’s Gospel, Peter tries to do the right thing. He asks, Lord, should we strike with our sword? When you ask a question, you should wait for an answer. But Peter, the proud owner of a sword, does not wait for an answer and cuts the servant’s ear off.

In three Gospels, Peter is rebuked by our Lord for using a sword.

 

[Eric h]

Was your father a WWII vet Eric?

My mother escaped the genocide in Smyrna in 1922. My dad and uncles were in the RAF during WW2. America was content to sit back and sell guns at the start of WW2. The UK only finished paying this debt to the US in 2006.

What do you think should be done? Just lay down our swords and let China and North Korea and Iran have nuclear bombs?

America is probably responsible for all these countries having WMD’s. The US was the first to use one in anger, so every other country needs them for their own self defence. The war in Iraq was a farce in my opinion, the US and Britain had loads of WMD’s. They should have looked in their own back yard first. We all went guns blazing into Iraq, and look at the mess we have left.

The only solution is God. Mankind doesn’t learn from history; we repeat our mistakes on a grander scale each time.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Did Jesus ever carry a sword?

Scripture doesn't say.

How is this relevant?

At the end of Jesus’s ministry, only two of his disciples had swords. Meaning the majority went around without a sword.

Not necessarily. For all we know, they could have sold their swords prior to Jesus asking for one.

Scripture doesn't say one way or the other what they had prior to Jesus telling them to sell their cloak and buy a sword.

The only time swords are used during the ministry of Jesus, he told them to put the swords away.

Why does He tell them to put the sword(s) away?

Is it because:
A) Jesus is against people arming themselves; or
B) Jesus has a greater plan that he's told them about, but they didn't understand?

You are telling Christians what to do.

So are you, hypocrite!

When does Jesus tell his disciples to train with swords? They were the guns of the day.

When He told them to buy the swords, He expected them to know how to use them.

At least one of them knew how to use it enough to lop a man's ear off...

God says "Do not murder."

By this, we know that humans have the right to life.

That means they have the right to defend their life (barring them being punished by the government for committing a capital crime). That means making effective use of the tools they have available to them. That includes everything from swords to guns.

The very fact that Jesus told his disciples to arm themselves shows that he is NOT AGAINST His people owning personal defense weapons, and in fact expects people to defend their own lives, and also the lives of the innocent people around them.

 

[Idolater]

... We are asked to love and pray for our enemies. How does that work when you carry a gun?

... it takes less than a complete thought to answer that question in a wide variety of valid ways, which makes me wonder about you as a person. Frankly.

America is probably responsible for [China and North Korea and Iran] having WMD’s. The US was the first to use one in anger, so every other country needs them for their own self defence. The war in Iraq was a farce in my opinion, the US and Britain had loads of WMD’s. They should have looked in their own back yard first. We all went guns blazing into Iraq, and look at the mess we have left.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.