Gun control with brains

[PureX]

What I am advocating is personal responsibility... not collectivism or socialism, which is what you are advocating.

What you are advocating is idiotic.

How about we try advocating "personal responsibility" as the regulating factor on our roads. We'll just eliminate the traffic laws and let people decide for themselves when it is "personally responsible" for them to stop at an intersection. Or what speed they should travel. Or what condition their vehicle is in. Or if they should have liability insurance or not. How do you think "personal responsibility" will actually work out, for us?

Or how about we let "personal responsibility" determine product safety in this country. We'll just eliminate all those "oppressive" regulations and inspections involved in food processing, and let people decide for themselves, based on their sense of "personal responsibility" how careful they'll be producing and preparing the food they sell to others. How do you think that will work out for us? How many people do you think will die each year from eating toxic food? And how many deaths would it take before you would finally admit that your idea of allowing "personal responsibility" to replace the rule of law, because you don't like having laws limit your behavior in any way, isn't going to work? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? How many deaths would it take for you to finally admit that the lives of other people are worth more than your right to do whatever you want whenever you want to?

Why do you want to deprive other people of their rights?

I don't want to deprive anyone of anything. But I understand that we all have to sacrifice some of our personal desires for the sake of the safety and security and peace and well-being of our communities. Just like I understand that even though I don't like paying taxes, I need to do so for the sake of the safety, security, peace and well-being of my community. And I do this because I understand that my safety, security, peace and well-being are dependent upon everyone else's. So that what's good for my neighbors is good for me, too. Even if I have to sacrifice some of my personal desires for their sakes.

How can you talk of "personal responsibility" and not understand these things? How can you be an adult human being and not understand these things? How can you call yourself a Christian and not understand these things?

And like I said, the proper way to deal with this is a constitutional amendment.

The proper way to deal with gun regulation is through gun regulation. That doesn't require a constitution amendment. All it requires is that we set up a system of oversight, through the government (that is what it's for, after all) that effectively regulates the ownership and use of firearms. Just as we already do with most other dangerous mechanical devices.

Basically, you are advocating tyranny.

No, I'm simply advocating that we use government to do what we establish governments to do: regulate our behavior on behalf of the well-being of society as a whole.

 

[chair]

What I am advocating is personal responsibility... not collectivism or socialism, which is what you are advocating.

You are exaggerating his view to make it easier to argue with him.
Do you really think anybody, no matter what their history is, should be allowed to have a weapon?

To make it easier for you to think about: A US citizen who happens to be a Muslim, and attends a Mosque where the Imam preaches hate and violence. Should he be allowed to buy a gun?

What if he has a police record to boot?

 

[rexlunae]

There is no "right not to be shot".... that would be covered as a crime and the laws of the land should deal with that.

You don't think the right to life covers that?

 

[ok doser]

You don't think the right to life covers that?

shooting isn't always fatal

 

[HisServant]

What you are advocating is idiotic.

How about we try advocating "personal responsibility" as the regulating factor on our roads. We'll just eliminate all traffic laws, and let people decide for themselves when it is "personally responsible" for them to stop at an intersection. Or what speed they should travel. Or what condition their vehicle is in. Oh, and if they should have liability insurance or not. How do you think "personal responsibility" will work out for us?

And most of those laws on the roads are unenforceable. I see people blow through stop signs and stop lights all the time with impunity. Unless we can properly enforce a law, its useless.

Or how about we let "personal responsibility" determine product safety in this country. We'll just eliminate all those regulations and inspections involved in food processing, and let people decide for themselves, based on their sense of "personal responsibility" how careful they'll be producing and preparing the food they sell to others.

The courts were intended to give people redress in this type of matter... and when the word gets out, no one will ever buy from them again and they will go out of business.

How do you think that will work out for us? How many people do you think will die each year from eating toxic food? How many deaths would it take before you would finally admit that your idea of allowing "personal responsibility" to replace the rule of law, because you don't like having laws limit your behavior in any way? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand?

How many deaths would it take for you to finally admit that the lives of other people are worth more than your right to do whatever you want whenever you want to?

This is a constitutional issue... if you want to change it, change the constitution.

I don't want to deprive anyone of anything. But I understand that we all have to sacrifice some of our personal desires for the sake of the safety and security and peace and well-being of our communities. Just like I understand that even though I don't like paying taxes, that I need to do so for the sake of the safety, security, peace and well-being of my community. And I do this because I understand that my safety, security, peace and well-being are dependent upon everyone else's. So that what's good for my neighbors is good for me, too. Even if I have to sacrifice some of my personal desires for their sakes.

All laws require taxes to enforce... what would be the appropriate tax burden on you to make sure your view of society was enforced properly... the reality is that it would be way more than 50% of your income.. probably more.

How can you be an adult human being and not understand these things? How can you call yourself a Christian and not understand these things?

I would say the same thing about you?... what kind of human are you? But than again, I don't need anyone to do anything for me... I can protect myself, grow my own food, repair my own house and car.... you are unneeded as far as my life goes...like most of my neighbors. Should we force people to need one another so they protect one another?... nope.

The proper way to deal with gun regulation is through gun regulation. That doesn't require a constitution amendment. All it requires is that we set up a system of oversight, through the government (that is what it's for, after all) that effectively regulates the ownership and use of firearms. Just as we already do with most other dangerous mechanical devices.

Which is unconstitutional... so its not proper, because it infringes.

No, I'm simply advocating that we use government to do what we establish governments to do.

Our government isn't supposed to act that way. Our constitution and declaration of independence is all about INDIVIDUALS. America was a country you could come to and prosper without the political and class restrictions where most people immigrated from.

 

[HisServant]

You are exaggerating his view to make it easier to argue with him.
Do you really think anybody, no matter what their history is, should be allowed to have a weapon?

To make it easier for you to think about: A US citizen who happens to be a Muslim, and attends a Mosque where the Imam preaches hate and violence. Should he be allowed to buy a gun?

What if he has a police record to boot?

What I think is irrelevant.. the constitution guarantees those people the right to own a gun.

 

[jzeidler]

That's idiotic. People have to sacrifice some of their freedom and autonomy to live together in peace and relative harmony. What you're advocating is complete selfishness, and complete disregard for the well being and security of your fellow human beings. That's no kind of Christian I've ever heard of.

Did you just call Ben Franklin? That was stupid. Do so only at your own peril.

Also, your wrong. Dead wrong. You don't need to sacrifice freedoms for safety. You need to grow up and be an adult. Society needs to be built up by strong moral adults who will respect others rights and freedoms of all. Society should not be built up by weak children who are so scared they are lining up to forfeit theirs and everyone else's freedoms.
Give up freedoms for safety and you wind up with neither.

 

[rexlunae]

shooting isn't always fatal

That's true. But how often do you shoot someone without trying to kill them?

 

[ok doser]

That's true. But how often do you shoot someone without trying to kill them?

how many times in a month or how many times with a single person?

 

[PureX]

Did you just call Ben Franklin? That was stupid. Do so only at your own peril.

Why, because Ben Franklin couldn't possibly have ever said something stupid? Is he going to come back and "get me" for saying so? :chuckle:

Also, your wrong. Dead wrong. You don't need to sacrifice freedoms for safety. You need to grow up and be an adult. Society needs to be built up by strong moral adults who will respect others rights and freedoms of all. Society should not be built up by weak children who are so scared they are lining up to forfeit theirs and everyone else's freedoms.
Give up freedoms for safety and you wind up with neither.

This is too much nonsensical selfish gibberish for me to bother with, today.

Later.

 

[HisServant]

Why, because Ben Franklin couldn't possibly have ever said something stupid? Is he going to come back and "get me" for saying so? :chuckle:
This is too much nonsensical selfish gibberish for me to bother with, today.

Later.

It's still up to the individual to protect themselves... even from the police if necessary.

The police are not your friends, nor do they want to help you most of the time.

And unless the individual remains empowered to protect themselves as a right under the constitution, we are all doomed to servitude and slavery.

 

[jzeidler]

Why, because Ben Franklin couldn't possibly have ever said something stupid? Is he going to come back and "get me" for saying so? :chuckle:

This is too much nonsensical selfish gibberish for me to bother with, today.



Later.

We it's probably because Ben Franklin is way smarter than you. Here is a clear indication that he is since you can't grasp the simple concept he was getting at.

 

[jzeidler]

It's still up to the individual to protect themselves... even from the police if necessary.



The police are not your friends, nor do they want to help you most of the time.



And unless the individual remains empowered to protect themselves as a right under the constitution, we are all doomed to servitude and slavery.

Right on the dot. I'm glad there are people with their head on straight in the world.

 

[ok doser]

 

[chair]

What I think is irrelevant.. the constitution guarantees those people the right to own a gun.

1. Apparently it is not so simple
2. Guess what? The Constitution is not holy. You are allowed to have your own opinion on matters. Allowed- and should.

 

[PureX]

It's still up to the individual to protect themselves... even from the police if necessary.

The police are not your friends, nor do they want to help you most of the time.

And unless the individual remains empowered to protect themselves as a right under the constitution, we are all doomed to servitude and slavery.

We are already doomed to servitude and slavery, open your eyes! They don't need guns to enslave is, and our having guns won't make us free. We are so totally enslaved by our own fear, and ignorance, and greed, now, that most of us can't even see it, anymore. I think it's your own desperate desire not to recognize that you're already being enslaved, oppressed, and abused by our corporate overlords that makes you so obsessed with this fantasy of the self-sufficient gunslinger, free to do whatever he pleases because of the power of his mighty assault pistol. When in truth most of us are far more likely to shoot ourselves or each other with them than to ever free ourselves from the organized oppression of our rigged economic system and our near totally corrupted government.

If it's a revolution you're thinking about you're going to need a lot more than a box of guns and ammo. What you're really going to need is the rest of us. And the self-sufficient gunslinger fantasy isn't helping you at all on that. Neither is you apparent disregard for the lives of your fellow citizens when they're being killed by the gun manufacturer's excessive greed.

 

[HisServant]

We are already doomed to servitude and slavery, open your eyes! They don't need guns to enslave is, and our having guns won't make us free. We are so totally enslaved by our own fear, and ignorance, and greed, now, that most of us can't even see it, anymore. I think it's your own desperate desire not to recognize that you're already being enslaved, oppressed, and abused by our corporate overlords that makes you so obsessed with this fantasy of the self-sufficient gunslinger, free to do whatever he pleases because of the power of his mighty assault pistol. When in truth most of us are far more likely to shoot ourselves or each other with them than to ever free ourselves from the organized oppression of our rigged economic system and our near totally corrupted government.

If it's a revolution you're thinking about you're going to need a lot more than a box of guns and ammo. What you're really going to need is the rest of us. And the self-sufficient gunslinger fantasy isn't helping you at all on that. Neither is you apparent disregard for the lives of your fellow citizens when they're being killed by the gun manufacturer's excessive greed.

I don't own a gun.. I'm too clumsy.. I have no grand illusions of being a gun slinger or hero in any way shape or form.

 

[jzeidler]

Today at work I was pondering why these slimy politicians and destructive president are so afraid of the second amendment. Then I remembered the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"To secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"

This is why they are so afraid of guns. It isn't because they care about the families who are occasionally harmed by them. It's because our founding fathers were inspired and gave us, The People, the authority to overthrow our government if it becomes tyrannical. Not only did they give us the authority to do this, they gave us the responsibility to do this.

This is why politicians are so eager to get rid of the second amendment. Because that gives us the power to fulfill what our founding fathers demanded of us.

 

[PureX]

 

[elohiym]

Let me ask you one question, why are you against background checks for firearms?

I'm not. Why are you against background checks for knives?

According to the numbers you provided, over 12% of the murders committed in 2014 were committed with knives.