ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Cross Reference said:
The confusion sets in when salvation and redemption are look at synonymously when they aren't. This is being overlooked by PPS.
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What's spending yer free coupon (Holy Spirit) for the savings (receiving redemptive salvation) got to do with disproving the quality of the product? (redemptive salvation)

On a side note when one uses his/her coupon one needs ask for more coupons.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Here's where it gets fun.


Isaiah 65:24
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
 
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TulipBee

TulipBee

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Sonnet said:
If you agree with PPS then it should be easy for you to prove the assertion regarding qualitative 'all'.

You didn't though.
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I agree with the bible reguarding to how all is use. Pps is almost like another language to learn but he is far more correct than you since you're not a believer due to being unregerated at this time.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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TulipBee said:
I agree with the bible reguarding to how all is use. Pps is almost like another language to learn but he is far more correct than you since you're not a believer due to being unregerated at this time.
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Just asking for proof - that is all - but you did not provide any.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Nang said:
"Proof" (according to humanistic understanding) is the opposite of "Faith."

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not believed according to any earthly "proofs," but by God-given faith, alone.
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Of course.

If you had been following you would have known I was looking for proof regarding the supposed nuances (according to PPS) of articular/anarthrous 'all'. Not one translation I have seen reflects such a distinction.

The parallelism of v.18 refutes any notion of an atonement that was limited.

Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

John 1:29; 3:16; 4:42; 12:32; Romans 11:32; 1 Timothy 2:4; 4:10; Hebrews 2:9; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14.


Scriptures that explicitly say Christ died for less than all men:

ZERO.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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1 John 4:4-14
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Nang said:
Nick's earlier thread OP includes the quote of Romans 5:18 to suggest that the death of Jesus Christ universally paid for "all" sins, but Romans 5:19 quantifies Paul's gospel message as pertaining only to "many."
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In which case the first occurrence of 'many' in verse 19 would deny the universality of original sin.

Is this what you believe?
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Nang said:
That phrase is just one expression of the Gospel message, which I would only use within a Christian context when communicating with confessing brethren.

It is not the words I would use out in the world in general, for I do not believe in assuming God loves all men, and would never tell someone God loved them and forgives them their sins, when I do not know the condition of their hearts . . let alone having no knowledge of their eventual fate.

I do not believe a "free will offer of the gospel" is truthful.
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John 3:14-16
Titus 2:11
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Not 'all kinds of men' but 'all men'. Not one scripture speaks of 'all kinds of men' with regard to salvation.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Sonnet said:
Not 'all kinds of men' but 'all men'. Not one scripture speaks of 'all kinds of men' with regard to salvation.
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In this, Sonnet, Nang makes a valid point insofar as God loves those who love Him. That said, she has no point insofar as that verse speaks of God's love being conditional she wilfully omits.. This is but one verse of many that speak it:

"But, on the contrary, as the Scripture says, What eye has not seen and ear has not heard and has not entered into the heart of man, [all that] God has prepared (made and keeps ready) for those who love Him [who hold Him in affectionate reverence, promptly obeying Him and gratefully recognizing the benefits He has bestowed]". 1 Corinthians 2:9 (AMP)

"[And this He will do] provided that you continue to stay with and in the faith [in Christ], well-grounded and settled and steadfast, not shifting or moving away from the hope [which rests on and is inspired by] the glad tidings (the Gospel), which you heard and *which has been preached [as being designed for and offered without restrictions] to every person under heaven, and of which [Gospel] I, Paul, became a minister". Colossians 1:23 (AMP) *From the instant Adam was created.

Here's my point:

Man's faith is of himself made effective when he demonstrates it TO God [action needed], God rewards. It has always been that way with Him. If faith for believing God for salvation was a gift from Him but given only to a "select" few then God would be showing partiality, wouldn't He? If so many could say: "Hey!! What about me, I love you! Don't I count?!" Nang is forced to say that is so because of the warped understanding of the Sovereignty of God she has taken into herself which makes God to be unjust-unfair in His choosing when He isn't at all given He has, unless reprobated by Him per Rom 1:28, equipped man at every turn in his life to receive him for which "David was a man after His own Heart"..

Freely we all have received a measure of faith the moment Adam was created and God looks for at least that same measure to be returned to Him when dealing with the issues of life. Freely we have received and freely we must give. Adam didnt do that, leaving us with a problem of his making.

Nang, and others as her, confuse redemption to be salvation. That is why her argument is, "God doesn't love all men". While true, God nevertheless had to redeem ALL mankind of Adam's race in order for the ones He [fore]"loves" to have a way to Him in the most complete way. This is the gospel of the GOOD news.
 
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Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
To clarify my testimony:

"I do not believe a "free will offer of the gospel" is truthful."



The Latin word for "offer" as confessed in the Canons of Dort, III Point, Article 9, is "offero" which means to "set forth" or "proclaim."

Therefore, I believe and attempt to proclaim the Gospel indiscriminately to as many as will listen to the message.

I do not present the Gospel message as a modern "offer" that is optional or contingent upon sinners "accepting Christ."

God commands all sinners that they must believe the Gospel to live, but no man will nor can believe, apart from being indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. I Corinthians 2:13-14

Believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is the work of God. John 6:29

Many hear the Gospel proclaimed but do not believe, because they have not been given new hearts nor ears to hear.

One must first be born again and changed by the Holy Spirit, before he can respond to the Gospel message. This is the work of Triune God: John 3:3-8; 5:21

Not the work or choice of man . . .

Godly Regeneration precedes faith.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
"The Reformed deny that the work of Christ had equal reference to all mankind. There are differentiations within the love of God: God's highest love reserved for His elect (Ephesians 1:4), His sheep (John 10:15), His people (Matthew 1:21) and His children given to the Son (John 17; Hebrews 2:13).

Join to this truth, the fact that God hardened Pharoah's heart (Romans 9), refrained from choosing Judas (John 13:18), and allowed His holy hatred to rest upon Esau (Romans 9), and we are left with the biblical truth of Limited Atonement."

George C. Miladin
 
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