ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Stick with the bible like calvinists do !

Except they misinterpret certain Scripture in order to make it fit their false doctrine/false gospel.

 

[heir]

"Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me." John 14:6 (AMP) Spoken to His disciples, NOT unbelievers.

Seek Him and not someones interpretation or personal experience of Him. He will become a personal experience IN you, if you do it that way..

I'm believing the scriptures and those particularly written directly about the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ by His chosen vessel, Paul and I will continue! It doesn't get better than that!

 

[heir]

Seems like an argument about whether or not you can save yourself or that God is the only one that saves? Whether or not we can determine our own salvation or that God will determine who gets saved?

It's a puzzler and here is why simply.

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened up to you. You seek to realise you were found in Christ and any man woman or child who seeks, knocks on the door will find that they were already found in Christ it is a door that no man can close and it's the door of your heart and any heart can open the door.

When you are found you realise it was not your seeking that saved you but you do have to open the door of your own heart to God, to die to self to surrender all you are with all your sins and burdens and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

It's because it's a work complete and something accomplished in Eternity and is free to all people but it's a journey to find that out. Few find it, it's something you'd poke your eye to get such is the desire to knock and knock on the door till eventually the baker wakes up. And after the baker gets up and gives you the bread you realise you were already found in Christ before the foundation of the earth. So one will say I'm saving myself, knocking on the doors of heaven and another will say I was found in Christ when I realised there was nothing I could do to save myself.

Are both doing the wrong thing?

And if a Muslim is knocking on the door five times a day then should be simple to explain Jesus to them. I think shooting them down in judgement is not the way to go about it and though a well intentioned demonstration of spiritual battling, to judge is not a demonstration of the Kingdom of God, a showing of the way which is what we are called to do.

Well it is a demonstration of the Kingdom because with the measure you judge, you will be judged but a show of love and understanding would be more edifying and a joy

There is a gospel that is the power of God to save you. I hope you trust the Lord believing it!

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[djhow]

Thanks for your concern I hope you do too

 

[Cross Reference]

I'm believing the scriptures and those particularly written directly about the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ by His chosen vessel, Paul and I will continue! It doesn't get better than that!

Too bad. You lose. I want to know Him, not about Him. Jesus explained how that can happen by abandoning your life to God. Paul did as well. How come you don't want to know that and prefer to piddle your time away arguing over the same approach?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm believing the scriptures and those particularly written directly about the risen, ascended Lord Jesus Christ by His chosen vessel, Paul and I will continue! It doesn't get better than that!

True.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Too bad. You lose. I want to know Him, not about Him. Jesus explained how that can happen by abandoning your life to God. Paul did as well. How come you don't want to know that and prefer to piddle your time away arguing over the same approach?

The plain and the simple of it is, You're wrong and Heir is right. Too bad for the likes of you.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

If no reference is made to synergism then it would be Pelagianism, yes.

Arminianism is just Pelagianism "Lite". I'm not sure I even like the terms Monergism and Synergism, ultimately. It's part of the false binary.

Your post here is a recognition of much, if not all, that constitutes Calvinism.

It seems so, and that's because Monergism more closely aligns with truth in certain distinct ways. And Synergism is really a misnomer, trying to refer to the latent functionality of man that was dysfunctionalized in spiritual death and sin.

Hamartia (sin) is a form of ameros [a- (no/not) and -meros (share/part)]; the missing share or part. There's no "part" or "share" within man that can functionally participate in Synergism initially. And the original functionality was given by God and then dyfunctionalized.

What's up for "grabs" is the degree of depravity for Synergism or lack thereof; and that's why it's a misnomer that has devolved into a false binary. Man was created to function Synergistically, but in a creation that is Monergistic. That functionality was abrogated in spiritual death (thanatos), which is a term that needs MUCH attention (it's not annihilation or eradication).

How can you fend off the charge that such a view leaves some men without any access to salvation?

Because most equate Calvinism to Determinism. And Calvinists attempt to project time upon a timeless God. They also don't understand the mechanics of functionality and dysfunctionality; so in making their appropriate appeals to Monergism, they neglect that which is enabled within man that could not initially co-operate for Synergism.

Synergism has always been Monergistically driven, in the original creation and in the new creation.

You affirm that all have access, but you are yet to say how...surely not as the Calvinists do with the suggestion that reprobates 'could' but 'wont' - that it's their sinful desires that prevent them. Its disingenuous.

This is where I have to disagree with so many terms employed by both "sides" of this false binary. Irresistable grace, for instance. That's not a lexical term, just like so many others. Unlimited versus Limited also implies an initiative by God that is pre-emptive in reprobation or election. And the arguments have take the form of many "isms" that have sculpted man's hearts and minds through language and culture, so the conflicts aren't the same as they were several hundred years ago; they've morphed to take on a life of their own.

The real issue revolves around the will of man, and whether "free" is a term aptly applied to it in the positive or negative. Again, it's a misnomer. The will is the application of the mind toward object/s as subject/s. An unrenewed mind in spiritual death is not "free". And a renewed mind is "free" in the sense of being free from the power of sin, though not the presence of sin.

I think ALL the arguments need to be reframed apart from such extreme false binaries, and with much more lexical expression from exegesis instead of concepts. It's quite apparent that the proponents of the extreme binaries are never going to agree, since each considers the other to be lost without Christ.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Are you capable of communicating to people in a simple and clear way of presentation? By the way, need I remind you again to leave the "WIT" to the professionals?

Are you capable of ever learning any theological terms so you don't have to have everything dumbed down to a preschool level when you're a geriatric senile old reprobate?

No, you're not.

 

[Nang]

This is where I have to disagree with so many terms employed by both "sides" of this false binary. Irresistable grace, for instance. That's not a lexical term, just like so many others. Unlimited versus Limited also implies an initiative by God that is pre-emptive in reprobation or election.

These terms are less theological, than merely a memory aid.

A pastor in fairly recent times, developed the acronym "TULIP" so that his congregation could more easily remember the 5 arguments made at the Synod of Dort against the Remonstrants.

Now, we see Neo-Calvinists dumbing this effort down even further, by changing the terms to make them more easily understood. Unlimited Atonement becomes "Particular Redemption", etc. as if that helps.

Would that the doctrines be explored more thoroughly, rather than being just an exercise of memory at a spelling-bee level.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Are you capable of ever learning any theological terms so you don't have to have everything dumbed down to a preschool level when you're a geriatric senile old reprobate?

No, you're not.

You seem to suffer from some form of jealousy? This form of jealousy is usually caused by someone who is feeling they're in the presence of one who is endowed with a superior intellect.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

PPS, has severe "Anger issues" and should consider taking an "Anger management course?" He also appears to present himself as a "Child man." He's very immature and feels as if he NEEDS to use schoolyard namecalling and put downs.

He's a poor soul. However, there is hope for him.

 

[Nang]

You seem to suffer from some form of jealousy? This form of jealousy is usually caused by someone who is feeling they're in the presence of one who is endowed with a superior intellect.

All you know, GM, is to provoke members . . .

Which is against TOL rules, but somehow or for some reason, you are allowed to provoke the saints, day and night without ceasing.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

These terms are less theological, than merely a memory aid.

A pastor in fairly recent times, developed the acronym "TULIP" so that his congregation could more easily remember the 5 arguments made at the Synod of Dort against the Remonstrants.

Now, we see Neo-Calvinists dumbing this effort down even further, by changing the terms to make them more easily understood. Unlimited Atonement becomes "Particular Redemption", etc. as if that helps.

Would that the doctrines be explored more thoroughly, rather than being just an exercise of memory at a spelling-bee level.

Exactly.

Calvinism is not Determinism; so part of the issue is all the dancing around the flaming strawman that Arminians have set ablaze (assisted by "Piperites" and other modern Neo-Calvinist "7-point" bunglers, etc.).

When man is empowered to become sons of God, he is then to "prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God". It's never about man's will anyway.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

All you know, GM, is to provoke members . . .

Which is against TOL rules, but somehow or for some reason, you are allowed to provoke the saints, day and night without ceasing.

Well, anyone who reads the entirety of my posts on this thread can't help but notice my opinions coming from one who is a preacher of the Grace Gospel who speaks up against the false doctrine of Calvinism, which is a "False gospel." When I am attacked by such as PPS, I have a tendency to stand my ground. I'm doing nothing more than anyone else placed in that situation. Nang, if the heat is too much for you, perhaps you need to consider finding a nice, pleasant Calvinist board. That way, you'll be in control. You just came off a ban that lasted a very long time. What the reason is, I know not. However, this I do know, you're a very unpleasant and grouchy type of individual who gets extremely angry when someone disagrees with your false belief system. It's been my experience on this forum and others that, Calvinists seem to suffer from this same emotional instability. They're also arrogant and seem to act superior to anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs.

 

[Nang]

Well, anyone who reads the entirety of my posts on this thread can't help but notice my opinions coming from one who is a preacher of the Grace Gospel who speaks up against the false doctrine of Calvinism, which is a "False gospel." When I am attacked by such as PPS, I have a tendency to stand my ground. I'm doing nothing more than anyone else placed in that situation. Nang, if the heat is too much for you, perhaps you need to consider finding a nice, pleasant Calvinist board. That way, you'll be in control. You just came off a ban that lasted a very long time. What the reason is, I know not. However, this I do know, you're a very unpleasant and grouchy type of individual who gets extremely angry when someone disagrees with your false belief system. It's been my experience on this forum and others that, Calvinists seem to suffer from this same emotional instability. They're also arrogant and seem to act superior to anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs.

Sooner or later you will get around to noticing that Reformers do not suffer fools . . .

Maybe then you will give up being one.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Nang, you have a bad habit of voicing your opinion that I'm somehow in cahoots with the Mods and vice-versa. Where you get this idea is unknown. I think you have some odd form of paranoia that seems to affect your opinions and perception. When you create a thread that is pro-Calvinist and anti-everything else, you have to expect a debate. Therefore, you attract those who disagree with you.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

PPS, is just a nasty type of poster who has a bias against older folks. Yet, Nang is my age or better and I've seen a pic of PPS and he appears to be around 60 or better. So, why he would attack those who are older, remains a mystery?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Sooner or later you will get around to noticing that Reformers do not suffer fools . . .

Maybe then you will give up being one.

Is that a form of intimidation/threat? Nang, you have me shaking in my boots. :rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The true Gospel in this "Dispensation of Grace" IS "The Grace Gospel" that was given to The Apostle Paul by The ascended Lord Jesus Christ. Paul was made the "Apostle to the Gentiles." Paul preached that God's Grace is offered to ALL OF hUMANITY. Not just a remnant of Elect chosen before the foundation of the world. Forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life is given to those who hear the Gospel and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. Calvinists don't like hearing about this Gospel. (Paul's Gospel)