Good Friday?

[jamie]

In all my years I've never heard the opinion that Christ was crucified on the Mount of Olives.

For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. (Matthew 24:27-28 NKJV)​

A carcass is a dead body, but who are the eagles?

But those who wait on the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint. (Isaiah 40:31 NKJV)


Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness to her place where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent.

So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

And the dragon was enraged with the woman and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:13-17 NKJV)


And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. (Zechariah 14:4 NKJV)

Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You. (Zechariah 14:5 NKJV)​

 

[steko]

Yes. I think they prepared and ate the last supper on the 13/14th time frame, and he was killed at the end of the day on the 14th.

The text says that on the day that the lambs were killed, the disciples asked where to prepare the Passover meal.
According to the commandment the lambs were killed on the 14th.
This has to be the 14th, not the 13th. At this point, the 13th was already past.

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

The Lord sent Peter and John into the city to make these preparations.
Where do you think they were residing when He sent them?
Scripture indicates that when the Lord and His disciples went to and from Jerusalem, they resided at Bethany, on the southeast side of the Mt of Olives, about two miles away.
Do you think that the Lord sent Peter and John into the city after the sundown of the 13th, which began the night of the 14th to prepare for the Passover meal, which actually was to be eaten the next night at the beginning of the 15th?

I have not specifically seen any verse why they could not have eaten on the night of the 14th before afternoon of the 14th when he was crucified as the passover lamb.

Here's two:

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

The day that the passover was killed, according to the commandment, was the afternoon of the 14th. There is no way this could have been the 13th.

 

[steko]

For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. (Matthew 24:27-28 NKJV)​

A carcass is a dead body, but who are the eagles?

But those who wait on the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint. (Isaiah 40:31 NKJV)


Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness to her place where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent.

So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

And the dragon was enraged with the woman and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:13-17 NKJV)


And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. (Zechariah 14:4 NKJV)

Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You. (Zechariah 14:5 NKJV)​

There is nothing in those verses which say that Christ was crucified on the Mt of Olives.

The eagles are the birds of prey that feed on the carcasses of those who are taken to judgement at the second coming as per these verses:

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


These verses could be included in the event:

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

 

[steko]

I prepare ahead of time, usually several days ahead of time. Jesus didn't say to not do so. Also he observed his Passover in an upper room but I don't have an upper room. We do what we can.

Also I don't wait until Nisan 14 to remove leavening in preparation for Passover observance. How about you?

You certainly have the liberty to do that any way that you want to.
Israel didn't have options, except for those who were defiled by a dead body or traveled from afar Num_9:10. It had to be done according to GOD's appointed times.

10th day- take a lamb and keep it up
14th day before sunset- kill the lamb in the evening
15th day after the 14th sunset- eat the passover

 

[steko]

Right, the type was animal blood which did not truly remove human sin. The antitype was Jesus' blood shed once for everyone for all time.

Each year we commemorate his broken body and shed blood as he asked us to do.

Yep!

 

[steko]

As John said Jesus was God's Lamb who was God's Passover whose shed blood covered sins for all time.

"the lamb that takes away the sin of the world."

Yep.

 

[jamie]

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Where did Jesus tell his disciples to prepare the Passover when Jesus was the Passover?

For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. (1 Corinthians 5:7 NKJV)​

Jesus is referred to as "our" Passover, not the Passover of the Jews which was a lamb or goat.

 

[steko]

Where did Jesus tell his disciples to prepare the Passover when Jesus was the Passover?

For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. (1 Corinthians 5:7 NKJV)​

Jesus is referred to as "our" Passover, not the Passover of the Jews which was a lamb or goat.

How can you just ignore this text and others:

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed[Abib/Nisan 14].
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

 

[jamie]

How can you just ignore this text and others:

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed[Abib/Nisan 14].

And he was.

Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

Where did Jesus tell the disciples to prepare his Passover? Do you know?

 

[steko]

And he was.



Where did Jesus tell the disciples to prepare his Passover? Do you know?

Luk 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

 

[achduke]

The text says that on the day that the lambs were killed, the disciples asked where to prepare the Passover meal.
According to the commandment the lambs were killed on the 14th.
This has to be the 14th, not the 13th. At this point, the 13th was already past.

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

The Lord sent Peter and John into the city to make these preparations.
Where do you think they were residing when He sent them?
Scripture indicates that when the Lord and His disciples went to and from Jerusalem, they resided at Bethany, on the southeast side of the Mt of Olives, about two miles away.
Do you think that the Lord sent Peter and John into the city after the sundown of the 13th, which began the night of the 14th to prepare for the Passover meal, which actually was to be eaten the next night at the beginning of the 15th?





Here's two:

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

The day that the passover was killed, according to the commandment, was the afternoon of the 14th. There is no way this could have been the 13th.

I do not think they had the last supper on the 13th. I think it was at the beginning of the 14th. I was only showing you the 13th/14th because the 14th just began. This would have been the very beginning of the preparation day when the lambs would be killed but the lambs would not be killed for 21 more hours or at about 3:00 PM. 21 hours is more then enough time for Jesus and the disciples to have dinner, pray and then be taken away and tried. Especially since Pilate, the priests and Herod were all in Jerusalem at that time. He was already guilty in the mind of the priests.

 

[achduke]

The Lord sent Peter and John into the city to make these preparations.
Where do you think they were residing when He sent them?
Scripture indicates that when the Lord and His disciples went to and from Jerusalem, they resided at Bethany, on the southeast side of the Mt of Olives, about two miles away.
Do you think that the Lord sent Peter and John into the city after the sundown of the 13th, which began the night of the 14th to prepare for the Passover meal, which actually was to be eaten the next night at the beginning of the 15th?

We do not know where they were on the 13th while it was daylight. They could have been near Jerusalem. It was less then an hour walk. Since the Passover is near the full moon it would have been easier to see.

The text does not say where they were at when they asked Christ about preparing for the Passover.

 

[jamie]

Luk 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

And then the next verse:

Then he will show you a large, furnished upper room, there make ready.” (Luke 22:12 NKJV)​

The disciples prepared Jesus' Passover in an upper room. They didn't go by way of the Temple that night, the 14th.

After supper Jesus distributed the wine, gave the disciples a piece of broken bread symbolizing his body and they drank the wine which symbolized his blood.

He then bestowed on them his kingdom just as the Father had bestowed on him.

 

[steko]

I do not think they had the last supper on the 13th.

Right, I wasn't implying that you did.

I think it was at the beginning of the 14th.

I believe that it was the daylight hours of the 14th, which was the appointed time in order that the Passover be made ready.
I don't believe that Christ's disciples would come to Him at the beginning of the 14th at night to ask Him where they should make preparations for the Passover, when they surely expected a normal Passover meal at the appointed time and they would have expected to prepare for it at the same time that all Israel was preparing for it during the daylight hours of the 14th.
To believe that the disciples asked where to make ready the Passover after sundown of the 13th, during the night time of the 14th would presume that the disciples understood that this was not going to be a normal Passover meal but something different. I believe that this would have been the farthest thing from their mind. They didn't even understand that their master was to be crucified. This concept was totally over their heads.

I was only showing you the 13th/14th because the 14th just began.

'The Preparation/Paraskeue' is the day before the weekly Sabbath.

No way that the 14th night time had just begun. This would be to say that once they had retired to the Mt of Olives for the night, they suddenly for no reason expected to be sent into Jerusalem to make ready a Passover which, to their minds, would be totally out of order and not according to the commandment. The whole idea is absurd.

This would have been the very beginning of the preparation day when the lambs would be killed but the lambs would not be killed for 21 more hours or at about 3:00 PM.

Again, 'the Preparation/parskeue' is the day before the weekly Sabbath. That is the only way the term is used in all four gospels during crucifixion week.
Always, the word 'hetoimazo' is used when describing the 'making ready/ preparing' for the Passover meal.
In the LXX version of Josiah's great Passover in IIChr 35, the word 'hetoimazo' is used eight times and alway translated in the English 'prepare/prepared/make ready'. Not one time is 'paraskeue' used in reference to 'preparing' for the Passover meal. It is the same in the Gospel accounts.

21 hours is more then enough time for Jesus and the disciples to have dinner, pray and then be taken away and tried. Especially since Pilate, the priests and Herod were all in Jerusalem at that time. He was already guilty in the mind of the priests.

Christ and His disciples ate Israel's Passover at the appointed time, after sundown of the 14th, the beginning of the 15th.

If not, His disciples would have questioned and protested the inappropriate timing.

The Lord Jesus and His disciples were living under the law!

 

[steko]

We do not know where they were on the 13th while it was daylight. They could have been near Jerusalem. It was less then an hour walk. Since the Passover is near the full moon it would have been easier to see.

We know where they were.

Luk 21:37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
Luk 21:38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

The text does not say where they were at when they asked Christ about preparing for the Passover.

We know that they were not in the city, because the Lord told them to go into the city.

I believe that on the 13th the Lord was at the home of Simon the leper in Bethany being anointed with perfume and the next day(14th) He told Peter and John to go into Jerusalem and 'prepare/hetoimazo' the Passover meal.

 

[jamie]

After the bread and wine they sang a hymn and went to the Mount of Olives to Gethsemane.

Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written: ‘I will strike the Shepherd and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’" (Matthew 26:31 NKJV)​

Jesus was betrayed by Judas and arrested that night.

Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. (John 18:28 NKJV)​

Jesus died that afternoon before the Passover meal.

 

[steko]

After the bread and wine they sang a hymn and went to the Mount of Olives to Gethsemane.

Yep.

Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written: ‘I will strike the Shepherd and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’" (Matthew 26:31 NKJV)​

Jesus was betrayed by Judas and arrested that night.

Yep.

Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. (John 18:28 NKJV)​

Jesus died that afternoon before the Passover meal.

They did not go into the Praetorium because they had to be undefiled in order to eat the Chagigah during Passover week which took place on the 15th.
The Lord Jesus died that afternoon and ate the Passover the night before at the beginning of the 15th, just as He said.


Mat 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Mar 14:14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

 

[daqq]

They did not go into the Praetorium because they had to be undefiled in order to eat the Chagigah during Passover week which took place on the 15th.
The Lord Jesus died that afternoon and ate the Passover the night before at the beginning of the 15th, just as He said.


Mat 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Mar 14:14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

The Chagigah, (Numbers 28:16-25) commenced the morning of the fourteenth of Abib, when the second-light day of the fourteenth of Abib had fully come, regardless of what Edersheim says concerning how it was observed by the Jews in the first century, (because they were a full day off for not observing Genesis 1:5 as previously quoted multiple times herein, "And there is evening, and there is morning: Yom Echad").

 

[steko]

The Chagigah, (Numbers 28:16-25) commenced the morning of the fourteenth of Abib, when the second-light day of the fourteenth of Abib had fully come, regardless of what Edersheim says concerning how it was observed by the Jews in the first century, (because they were a full day off for not observing Genesis 1:5 as previously quoted multiple times herein, "And there is evening, and there is morning: Yom Echad").

The Lord Jesus, according to the text, ate the Passover with His disciples at the proper time, regardless of what stretch of the imagination and flurry of words opposers want to use, which means
that Joh 18:28 can not be referring to the Passover seder which took place at sundown the beginning of the 15th.

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

According to the plain sense of these verses, the Lord Jesus ate the Passover Seder at the proper time.
Why should anyone be expected to import meaning and make this say something that it obviously doesn't? It's ridiculous to do so.
I'll go with this, as I always have, and leave you folks to your convoluted explanations.

 

[daqq]

The Lord Jesus, according to the text, ate the Passover with His disciples at the proper time, regardless of what stretch of the imagination and flurry of words opposers want to use, which means
that Joh 18:28 can not be referring to the Passover seder which took place at sundown the beginning of the 15th.

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

According to the plain sense of these verses, the Lord Jesus ate the Passover Seder at the proper time.
Why should anyone be expected to import meaning and make this say something that it obviously doesn't? It's ridiculous to do so.
I'll go with this, as I always have, and leave you folks to your convoluted explanations.

Yep, makes no sense at all to me why everyone here including yourself would honor the Talmud over the Torah. It really is ridiculous to do so, just as you admit, convoluting the holy Word with the Tamudic teachings and observances of those who rejected Messiah and his doctrine to begin with. But go ahead and go with what you will, while blatantly ignoring the Scripture as you do, to each his or her own I suppose. However you are mistaken in believing that sundown is the beginning of a new day or that the Seder was the night of the fifteenth. All these things are clearly shown in Torah, but apparently you prefer to believe those who follow Talmud and honor a calendar that was not even "ratified" until several hundred years after Messiah. :chuckle:

:sheep: