Good Friday?

[daqq]

We know from Torah there are two evenings.

And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. (Exodus 12:6 KJV)

And they shall eat the flesh in that night roast with fire, and unleavened bread, and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
(Exodus 12:8 KJV)
​

When does morning end?

The pitcher of water is a remez-pointer to the entire Genesis 24 passage:

Genesis 24-9-16 KJV
9. And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
10. And the servant took ten camels of the camels of his master, and departed; for all the goods of his master were in his hand: and he arose, and went to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.
11. And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water.
12. And he said O Lord God of my master Abraham, I pray thee, send me good speed this day, and shew kindness unto my master Abraham.
13. Behold, I stand here by the well of water; and the daughters of the men of the city come out to draw water:
14. And let it come to pass, that the damsel to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and she shall say, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: let the same be she that thou hast appointed for thy servant Isaac; and thereby shall I know that thou hast shewed kindness unto my master.
15. And it came to pass, before he had done speaking, that, behold, Rebekah came out, who was born to Bethuel, son of Milcah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham's brother, with her pitcher upon her shoulder.
16. And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.

Are there any other places in the scripture where women go to wells, to draw water, which might tell you about what time this is and where the evening begins?

 

[jamie]

Are there any other places in the scripture where women go to wells, to draw water, which might tell you about what time this is and where the evening begins?

The Samaritan woman drew water sometime around the sixth hour, which of course is not related to the evening sacrifice.

 

[daqq]

The Samaritan woman drew water sometime around the sixth hour, which of course is not related to the evening sacrifice.

Cha-ching! . . .

It does not matter what the passage is related to because it shows the approximate timing and that was the point: the woman comes to the well to draw water at about [the close] the sixth hour of the day. However I would not be so hasty to come to the conclusion which you have concerning the passage. Yeshua sits down at the well at about the sixth hour yet as he speaks to the woman the seventh hour sabbasin comes to pass, right there in the text, and Yeshua himself marks it:

John 4:6-7 KJV
6. Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7. There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

John 4:21-23 KJV
21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23. But the hour cometh, and now is, [the seventh hour has commenced] when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

This is the sabbato deuteroprotos, (which are the daily sabbasin) which is the eternal seventh hour mini-Shabbat in each and every day when the Bread of the Presence is brought before YHWH, tamiyd-continually, each and every day, "the shabbat in a yom, the shabbat in a yom", (Lev 24:8). This Shabbat likewise never ends because the earth spins upon its axis: when the seventh hour is complete in one time zone the seventh hour arrives in the next time zone. The seventh hour is likely the time between the morning and the evening, (the sixth hour closes and noon). The ninth hour is the hour of the evening sacrifice and the hour of prayer.

 

[WeberHome]

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According to John's gospel, Pilate presented Jesus to the Jews at around the
sixth hour. (John 19:14)

According to Matthew's gospel, there was an unnatural darkness from the
sixth hour till the ninth hour when Christ expired. (Matt 27:45-50)

The ninth hour is generally agreed to have been 3:00 pm in the afternoon.

Ergo: Christ's interview with the Samaritan women took place sometime
around noon: the middle of the day.

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[daqq]

-
According to John's gospel, Pilate presented Jesus to the Jews at around the
sixth hour. (John 19:14)

According to Matthew's gospel, there was an unnatural darkness from the
sixth hour till the ninth hour when Christ expired. (Matt 27:45-50)

The ninth hour is generally agreed to have been 3:00 pm in the afternoon.

Ergo: Christ's interview with the Samaritan women took place sometime
around noon: the middle of the day.

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Also, in the Gospel of John, Messiah carries his own stauros while in the three Synoptic Gospel accounts Simon Kurenaios carries the stauros of the man Yeshua. This tells you something if you have eyes to see and ears to hear, (it is not a contradiction). However, concerning the day clock, as stated, it was divided into eighteen parts, (not twenty-four). If you desire to understand then your hours are not to be hours of sixty minutes but rather an hour is eighty minutes as per the sundial of Ahaz.

 

[steko]

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Q: Why make a big deal out of identifying the three days and three nights
that Christ predicted he'd be dead and buried as per Matt 12:40?

A: Christ's resurrection is no trivial matter. According to 1Cor 15:1-4 it's one
of the two cardinal elements of the gospel that must be believed in order to
escape the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:10-15; so if somebody thinks the
correct chronology of crucifixion week is irrelevant then they need to revise
their estimation of that chronology's importance in the minds of people with
a head on their shoulders.

If intelligent people can't be shown where and how to find those three days
and three nights, then nobody has any right whatsoever to expect them to
believe in Christ's resurrection. I think the Devil knows this and that's why
he instigates arguments to cloud the issue; because Christ's resurrection is
Christianity's Achilles heel. If it cannot be shown from the Bible that Christ
was dead and buried as predicted, then in my estimation, Christ's followers
are no less fanatics, and no less gullible, than the followers of Siddhartha
Gautama and L. Ron Hubbard.

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1Co 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,


I believe that.

 

[daqq]

1Co 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,


I believe that.

And that says in or on the third day which cannot possibly mean three days and three nights. Therefore the common misconceptions about what Matthew 12:40 actually says are the true problem. The comments from the OP clearly show this to be the case as the OP states that Yeshua predicted he would be dead and in the grave or tomb for three days and three nights when, in fact, that is not what is stated in Matthew 12:40. The Matthew statement says absolutely nothing about a grave, tomb, or sepulcher, and the man himself is the erets-earth-land and adamah-soil in typology.

How or where is it written that the Son of man would be raised in the third day?
These are ancient things such as faith like the mustard seed of a herb-tree . . .

 

[achduke]

The Lord Jesus was crucified and died on the paraskeue of the weekly Sabbath(the sixth day of the week), which was the 15th and ate the Passover with His disciples the night before which was the beginning of the 15th(what we would call Thursday night).

So you think he was crucified on the (Unleavened Bread Sabbath) of the 15th? This is a day after the lambs were slaughtered on the 14th. God makes all these appointments but then his own son does not follow these appointments? He is the passover lamb but does not die on the appointed time for the passover?

Exodus 12:6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight.
10 You shall let none of it remain until morning, and what remains of it until morning you shall burn with fire.

Leviticus 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread

Exodus 12:16 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you.

 

[steko]

So you think he was crucified on the (Unleavened Bread Sabbath) of the 15th? This is a day after the lambs were slaughtered on the 14th. God makes all these appointments but then his own son does not follow these appointments? He is the passover lamb but does not die on the appointed time for the passover?

Again.....what is the number of this day according to the commandment in Ex 12?

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

 

[steko]

And that says in or on the third day which cannot possibly mean three days and three nights. Therefore the common misconceptions about what Matthew 12:40 actually says are the true problem. The comments from the OP clearly show this to be the case as the OP states that Yeshua predicted he would be dead and in the grave or tomb for three days and three nights when, in fact, that is not what is stated in Matthew 12:40. The Matthew statement says absolutely nothing about a grave, tomb, or sepulcher, and the man himself is the erets-earth-land and adamah-soil in typology.

How or where is it written that the Son of man would be raised in the third day?
These are ancient things such as faith like the mustard seed of a herb-tree . . .

I agree with the statement in yellow.

 

[jamie]

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

The Passover used to be killed on Nisan 14 so it could be eaten that night.

However, Jesus' Passover was prepared in an upper room, not at the Temple as required by the Mosaic law. After supper Jesus instituted a New Testament Passover removing the need for animal blood to protect the firstborn children of God.

 

[achduke]

Again.....what is the number of this day according to the commandment in Ex 12?

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

The Author is grouping the feast of unleaven and the passover together which many do. Even Luke 22:1 makes this clear.

Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

The first day of Passover is the 14th and that is when the lambs are killed.

Exodus 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Exodus 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.

 

[WeberHome]

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concerning the day clock, as stated, it was divided into eighteen parts, (not
twenty-four).

When Christ was here, the daytime hours of a calendar day consisted of no
more than twelve.

†. John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A
man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

Ergo: the sixth hour as per John 4:6 and John 19:14 was high noon.

Some folks doubt that Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathaea had enough
time to return to the city, locate Pilate, obtain an audience, round up a
hundred-pound weight of spices, return to the crucifixion site, get the body
down off the cross, and prepare it for burial all before sundown; but I'm
pretty sure they did.

Christ is recorded as expiring around the ninth hour (Matt 27:46-50, Mark
15:34-37, Luke 23:44-46) which corresponds to 3:00 pm. So his friends had
three hours to go before the official end of daytime.

In my opinion, three hours was plenty enough time to find Mr. Pilate,
accumulate the spices, get back out to the crucifixion site, take Christ's
body down off the cross, wrap it in cloths and spices, and lay it to rest in
Joseph of Arimathaea's tomb; especially since Christ was executed and
buried practically right outside the old city's walls.

The site of Golgotha has never really been precisely verified; but considering
that condemned men had to lug crosses to their own executions after having
been flogged and pummeled to within an inch of their lives, it's my guess the
distance wasn't all that great or they wouldn't make it. (cf. John 19:1-3, Isa
52:14)

Some people seem to be under the impression that the site where Christ
was crucified was a great journey from Jerusalem, but I've no doubt it was
just outside town-- like most boot hills in America's old West.

†. John 19:20 . . The place where Jesus was crucified was near the city

And the cemetery itself was conveniently situated adjacent to the crucifixion.
site.

†. John 19:41-42 . . Now in the place where he was crucified there was a
garden; and in the garden a new sepulcher, wherein was never man yet laid.
There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the
sepulcher was nigh at hand.

Jerusalem 2,000 years ago in Christ's era wasn't the sprawling metropolis it
is now. If you check a National Geographic map of the old city's boundaries
compared to the modern, you'll note a significant difference.

Finding Pilate was the easy part. His palace was right next to the fortress of
Antonia, which itself was situated near the Temple in Jerusalem.

Critics don't think three hours is adequate, but that's their hang-up, not
mine. There are always going to be skeptics about the events of Christ's
crucifixion similar to those who cannot bring themselves to believe that Lee
Harvey Oswald had enough time to get off all three of the shots fired at JFK;
but to this day; no one has been able to prove he didn't.

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[steko]

The Author is grouping the feast of unleaven and the passover together which many do. Even Luke 22:1 makes this clear.

The first day of Passover is the 14th and that is when the lambs are killed.

EXACTLY!!!!

So what is the number of this day?

Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:


Mar 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Mar 14:18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say

 

[steko]

The Passover used to be killed on Nisan 14 so it could be eaten that night.

Yes.

However, Jesus' Passover was prepared in an upper room, not at the Temple as required by the Mosaic law. After supper Jesus instituted a New Testament Passover removing the need for animal blood to protect the firstborn children of God.

Did the Lord Jesus' disciples prepare the passover on the 14th so that they could eat it with Him that evening or not.....according to the text?

 

[achduke]

EXACTLY!!!!

So what is the number of this day?

Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:


Mar 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Mar 14:18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say

Except that the day of the 14th starts at the end of the 13th/14th night. Night first and then Day.

Luke 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

The Day of the 14th came. It did not End which is the evening before the 15th starts. The lambs are not slaughtered at the beginning of the 14th but at the end of the 14th. They prepared for the passover in the beginning of the 14th. Not at the end of the 14th.

 

[jamie]

So what is the number of this day?

The Passover was to be killed on Nisan 14. Are you saying Jesus was not our Passover?

 

[steko]

Except that the day of the 14th starts at the end of the 13th/14th night. Night first and then Day.

Yes, that is correct.

The Day of the 14th came.

Yes, it did.

It did not end which is the evening before the 15th starts.

I can't make sense of that statement.

My understanding from scripture is that the 14th ends at sundown and the 15th begins.

The lambs are not slaughtered at the beginning of the 14th but at the end of the 14th.

Correct.

They prepared for the passover in the beginning of the 14th. Not at the end of the 14th.

By this statement, are you saying that Jesus told His disciples to go into the city and prepare the passover at the beginning night/dark period of the 14th?

It seems clear to me from the text that they went into the city during the daylight hours of the 14th to do all that was necessary to prepare to eat the passover meal, which would occur after sunset which is the beginning of the 15th. This is the only possible chronology that I can derive from the plain meaning of the text.

 

[steko]

The Passover was to be killed on Nisan 14. Are you saying Jesus was not our Passover?

I'm saying that the text says that Jesus' disciples prepared for the passover meal on the day of the 14th, which is the day GOD commanded the whole assembly of Israel to do so.

Are you saying Jesus was not our Passover?

Did I say that? Where?

 

[steko]

The Passover was to be killed on Nisan 14. Are you saying Jesus was not our Passover?

Was the Lord Jesus killed in the temple?

Was His flesh literally eaten through the night of the 15th and nothing left by morning?