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Jayhawker Soule

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Spitfire said:
I like to call it the Pentateuch.
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And I think a peoples traditions, including how they refer to their religious texts, deserves respect and deference. Furthermore, Pentateuch is typically used to refer to the Greek translations of a specific Vorlage with unique characterists. If you have some aversion to Jewish terms such as Torah or Chumash you might wish to consider the more neutral "Five Books of Moses."
 
Spitfire

Spitfire

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Jayhawker Soule said:
If you have some aversion to Jewish terms such as Torah or Chumash you might wish to consider the more neutral "Five Books of Moses."
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Actually, no, I don't have any such aversion, like you said, more an act of deference to my own traditions. If you mean to imply that our versions of the five books of Moses are flawed then I would be interested to hear why, though, I should confess, it seems that in matters of the authority and meaning of scripture Jewish scholars seem to simply assume any position contrary to whatever position Christians tend to take. Might it eventually come to the point that we're told it's a strictly Christian idea that God created the world, and Judaism has never actually taught any such thing?

And do you have some aversion to the term "Jewish?" Or what does "Other" mean in your case? Just curious. :)
 
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Jayhawker Soule

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Spitfire said:
Jayhawker Soule said:
And I think a peoples traditions, including how they refer to their religious texts, deserves respect and deference. Furthermore, Pentateuch is typically used to refer to the Greek translations of a specific Vorlage with unique characterists. If you have some aversion to Jewish terms such as Torah or Chumash you might wish to consider the more neutral "Five Books of Moses."
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Actually, no, I don't have any such aversion, like you said, more an act of deference to my own traditions. If you mean to imply that our versions of the five books of Moses are flawed then I would be interested to hear why, ...
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Spitfire, I meant to imply precisely what I wrote, nothing more, and what I wrote was nothing more than rudimentary fact. You might wish to google "Septuagint' for background or, if you're really interested, pick up Emanuel Tov's excellent Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible.

Spitfire said:
... though, I should confess, it seems that in matters of the authority and meaning of scripture Jewish scholars seem to simply assume any position contrary to whatever position Christians tend to take.
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Confessing such attitudes is probably a good start; simple awareness is often curative. I have little doubt but that one can find cases of 'push back' against replacement theology and cultural rape and the tapestry of pogrom and forced conversion that characterized much of the post-Nicean history, but I suspect that most differences in position reflect differences in position. I'm certainly no expert, but I'd be happy to discuss specifics in whatever thread you might recommend.

Spitfire said:
Might it eventually come to the point that we're told it's a strictly Christian idea that God created the world, and Judaism has never actually taught any such thing?
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I doubt it. Genesis is quite clear in asserting that God created the world.

Spitfire said:
And do you have some aversion to the term "Jewish?" Or what does "Other" mean in your case? Just curious.
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I actually struggled a bit with the label. The term Judaism covers a rather broad spectrum ranging from various flavors of Haredim through Reform and secular. Most modern Jews would categorize the likes of Hillel and Akiva, Rashi, Maimonides, Spinoza, Hermann Cohen, Mordechai Kaplan, Theodore Herzl, and Sherwin Wine as fellow Jews.

Classifying myself as Jewish may say everything that some Christian may think important to know, but that speaks more to his or her understanding and perspective than anything else - although I admit that "other" is hardly more helpful. I classify myself as a religious naturalist who approaches religion through Judaism. That was not one of the options. :)
 
Spitfire

Spitfire

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Jayhawker Soule said:
Spitfire, I meant to imply precisely what I wrote, nothing more, and what I wrote was nothing more than rudimentary fact. You might wish to google "Septuagint' for background or, if you're really interested, pick up Emanuel Tov's excellent Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible.
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I am quite familiar with the Septuagint. :) It is central in the debate between Catholics and Protestants/Evangelicals over the canon of the Bible. Jesus himself clearly quotes the Septuagint at times in the accounts of his words in the gospels.

Jayhawker Soule said:
I have little doubt but that one can find cases of 'push back' against replacement theology and cultural rape and the tapestry of pogrom and forced conversion that characterized much of the post-Nicean history, but I suspect that most differences in position reflect differences in position. I'm certainly no expert, but I'd be happy to discuss specifics in whatever thread you might recommend.
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Maybe you will be happy to see that replacement theology has fallen out of favor with many modern Christians, as particularly evidenced by the views of most you will find on this website (not me, however... though I don't advocate pogroms either.)

Jayhawker Soule said:
Classifying myself as Jewish may say everything that some Christian may think important to know, but that speaks more to his or her understanding and perspective than anything else - although I admit that "other" is hardly more helpful. I classify myself as a religious naturalist who approaches religion through Judaism. That was not one of the options. :)
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As long as you're not another one of those who loves to ruthlessly criticize the positions of others while revealing as little as possible about one's own position, thereby denying those who would subject one to the same scrutiny a clear target. There have been a few artful dodgers who hide behind "Other" or "Christian (Other)" or even "Christian" in light of the sometimes frustrating lack of a clear consensus about what constitutes a valid Christian. It's very effective as a first line of defense if you can always deny that any criticism applies to you because you have denied others a basis for determining whether or not it does. But, it's not really persuasive. :p I'm not saying that's what you do, just that I've noticed it's a common tactic.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

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Spitfire said:
I am quite familiar with the Septuagint.
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As am I, although I still suspect that we use the term differently. So, for example, I would suspect that an historical Jesus would have used a Septuagint Vorlage rather than a Greek translation. We can discuss this further if you wish but, as far as this thread is concerned, I suspect that the Septuagint, though a translation, is every bit as authentic as is the proto-Masoretic.

Spitfire said:
As long as you're not another one of those who loves to ruthlessly criticize the positions of others while revealing as little as possible about one's own position, ...
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I will gladly discuss my own position on any topic you wish.
 
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