Free-Agent Smith
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Maybe you should have tried 16 penny nails and a 20 ounce hammer?:think:
God's Criminal Justice System...
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Maybe you should have tried 16 penny nails and a 20 ounce hammer?:think:
Free-Agent Smith
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If we used God's criminal justuice system, would this situation have been avoided?
http://www.journal-news.com/news/ne...ichi.co.jp/news/20031206p2a00m0dm005001c.html
http://www.journal-news.com/news/ne...ichi.co.jp/news/20031206p2a00m0dm005001c.html
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Free-Agent Smith
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Poly, this is the article from the broken link.
YWCA rape victim files lawsuit
From the JournalNews
By Jessica Brown
Butler County Bureau
HAMILTON — A former reading tutor who was raped by a juvenile delinquent at the Hamilton YWCA is suing more than a dozen agencies who allegedly had a hand in placing her assailant in Butler County.
Karen Grantz, 57, was raped and beaten in March while trying to teach the illiterate Cincinnati youth how to read.
She was never told 17-year-old Terrell Wilkins had a violent history and more than a dozen criminal convictions.
Friday she filed a lawsuit against Discovery for Youth — a Hamilton group home — and numerous Hamilton County organizations that her lawsuit claims collaborated to place Wilkins there.
The suit, filed in Butler County Common Pleas Court, accuses the defendants of negligence for placing Wilkins in Butler County, then failing to adequately supervise him or inform Grantz or the YWCA of his background.
Grantz is seeking in excess of $25,000.
Michael Gmoser, one of the attorneys representing Grantz, said the suit is unique because it questions the liability of out-of-county agencies when they use Butler County as a “dumping ground” for delinquent youth.
“Once this lawsuit hits the public arena there will be a lot of people who will want to take a look at this,” he said. “How was this allowed to happen? Unfortunately, the only way the question gets answered is when they have to get the checkbook out.”
Gmoser said this is the first time in his 30 years as an attorney he has seen a suit filed for “delinquent dumping.”
Among those named in the suit are Discovery for Youth, Hamilton Choices in Cincinnati, Behavioral Health Choices in Indianapolis, and Hamilton County’s commission, juvenile court, job and family services, board of mental retardation and developmental disabilities, mental health board and alcohol and drug services board.
It also names as defendants Wilkins, the Ohio Bureau of Worker’s Compensation and any other unnamed organization or agency involved in Wilkins’ placement.
“We have a victim who has been severely abused by a man from Hamilton County that had no business in Butler County,” said Gmoser. “He is one of the most vicious criminal offenders that has ever been seen by the prosecution. This woman deserved better from all of the agencies that participated in dumping this young man in the lap of Butler County.”
Wilkins was born and raised in Cincinnati. He accrued a significant juvenile record there before but being placed at Discovery for Youth, 1280 Main St., Hamilton. He was living there when the rape occurred. The attorney for the non-profit group home declined comment Friday because he had not yet seen the lawsuit.
Courtney Kasinger, communications director for Hamilton Choices, would not comment directly on the suit or Wilkins’ placement.
“We look at each case individually, assess the needs of the youth and it is a team decision to find the best place in the community for the success of the child and the family,” regardless whether the placement crosses county lines, she said.
“We place children where the resources are available,” she said.
Choices is headquartered in Indianapolis and runs nine placement programs there. It opened up Hamilton Choices in Cincinnati in October 2002.
The organization deals with youths who have emotional problems and are already in residential treatment or are at risk of being put there.
Kasinger said when a youth has a criminal record, “protocol does provide placement providers be notified.”
“It is up to the child and family team (to decide) who needs to be apprised of the issues. We do evaluate the risk that child could pose to the community and closely monitor the situation when the child is placed anywhere,” she said. The type of monitoring varies on a case-by-case basis.”
Police said Wilkins attacked Grantz in the basement of the Hamilton YWCA March 7 because she terminated their tutoring session after he refused to cooperate. He pleaded no contest to rape and felonious assault charges and was sentenced last month to 15 years in prison.
The prosecutor said at sentencing that Wilkins was “the most dangerous human being I’ve ever prosecuted,” and the judge said Wilkins’ crime was the most brutal he’d seen in his 15 years as a judge. Wilkins was noted as showing no remorse. His record includes theft and assault convictions and a sexual assault involving his mother. He also has had behavioral problems and has received psychological treatment since childhood, according to court records.
Although Friday’s suit doesn’t specifically seek to reform the placement protocols, “the only way you can get things to change is by making it so expensive they will have to change,” Gmoser said.
“That never should have happened in the way it happened. There should have been controls in place, there should have been oversight. People may say hindsight is 20/20 but in this case this man’s record was crystal clear. He was a bomb ticking and ready to explode and he blew up in our county and as a resident of Butler County.”
Grantz, whose husband is also named as a plaintiff, declined comment Friday.
YWCA rape victim files lawsuit
From the JournalNews
By Jessica Brown
Butler County Bureau
HAMILTON — A former reading tutor who was raped by a juvenile delinquent at the Hamilton YWCA is suing more than a dozen agencies who allegedly had a hand in placing her assailant in Butler County.
Karen Grantz, 57, was raped and beaten in March while trying to teach the illiterate Cincinnati youth how to read.
She was never told 17-year-old Terrell Wilkins had a violent history and more than a dozen criminal convictions.
Friday she filed a lawsuit against Discovery for Youth — a Hamilton group home — and numerous Hamilton County organizations that her lawsuit claims collaborated to place Wilkins there.
The suit, filed in Butler County Common Pleas Court, accuses the defendants of negligence for placing Wilkins in Butler County, then failing to adequately supervise him or inform Grantz or the YWCA of his background.
Grantz is seeking in excess of $25,000.
Michael Gmoser, one of the attorneys representing Grantz, said the suit is unique because it questions the liability of out-of-county agencies when they use Butler County as a “dumping ground” for delinquent youth.
“Once this lawsuit hits the public arena there will be a lot of people who will want to take a look at this,” he said. “How was this allowed to happen? Unfortunately, the only way the question gets answered is when they have to get the checkbook out.”
Gmoser said this is the first time in his 30 years as an attorney he has seen a suit filed for “delinquent dumping.”
Among those named in the suit are Discovery for Youth, Hamilton Choices in Cincinnati, Behavioral Health Choices in Indianapolis, and Hamilton County’s commission, juvenile court, job and family services, board of mental retardation and developmental disabilities, mental health board and alcohol and drug services board.
It also names as defendants Wilkins, the Ohio Bureau of Worker’s Compensation and any other unnamed organization or agency involved in Wilkins’ placement.
“We have a victim who has been severely abused by a man from Hamilton County that had no business in Butler County,” said Gmoser. “He is one of the most vicious criminal offenders that has ever been seen by the prosecution. This woman deserved better from all of the agencies that participated in dumping this young man in the lap of Butler County.”
Wilkins was born and raised in Cincinnati. He accrued a significant juvenile record there before but being placed at Discovery for Youth, 1280 Main St., Hamilton. He was living there when the rape occurred. The attorney for the non-profit group home declined comment Friday because he had not yet seen the lawsuit.
Courtney Kasinger, communications director for Hamilton Choices, would not comment directly on the suit or Wilkins’ placement.
“We look at each case individually, assess the needs of the youth and it is a team decision to find the best place in the community for the success of the child and the family,” regardless whether the placement crosses county lines, she said.
“We place children where the resources are available,” she said.
Choices is headquartered in Indianapolis and runs nine placement programs there. It opened up Hamilton Choices in Cincinnati in October 2002.
The organization deals with youths who have emotional problems and are already in residential treatment or are at risk of being put there.
Kasinger said when a youth has a criminal record, “protocol does provide placement providers be notified.”
“It is up to the child and family team (to decide) who needs to be apprised of the issues. We do evaluate the risk that child could pose to the community and closely monitor the situation when the child is placed anywhere,” she said. The type of monitoring varies on a case-by-case basis.”
Police said Wilkins attacked Grantz in the basement of the Hamilton YWCA March 7 because she terminated their tutoring session after he refused to cooperate. He pleaded no contest to rape and felonious assault charges and was sentenced last month to 15 years in prison.
The prosecutor said at sentencing that Wilkins was “the most dangerous human being I’ve ever prosecuted,” and the judge said Wilkins’ crime was the most brutal he’d seen in his 15 years as a judge. Wilkins was noted as showing no remorse. His record includes theft and assault convictions and a sexual assault involving his mother. He also has had behavioral problems and has received psychological treatment since childhood, according to court records.
Although Friday’s suit doesn’t specifically seek to reform the placement protocols, “the only way you can get things to change is by making it so expensive they will have to change,” Gmoser said.
“That never should have happened in the way it happened. There should have been controls in place, there should have been oversight. People may say hindsight is 20/20 but in this case this man’s record was crystal clear. He was a bomb ticking and ready to explode and he blew up in our county and as a resident of Butler County.”
Grantz, whose husband is also named as a plaintiff, declined comment Friday.
Free-Agent Smith
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Maybe you better read this thread a little more carefully.:doh:
Free-Agent Smith
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:thumb: :Nineveh:
Free-Agent Smith
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ok
Freak
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Re: God's Criminal Justice System...
The Old Covenant called for the death penalty in these cases too:
-cursing parents
-for abusing one's parents
-for careless handling of an animal
-for stubbornness and rebellion
-for blasphemy
-for working on Saturday
-for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge
-for perjury
-A male who was not circumcised
-Manufacturing anointing oil
-Consuming blood
-Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating
-Persons teaching another religion
-Gluttony and excessive drinking
Those who endorse the death penaty would like for the government to put to death these people too. The problem is, first of all, nobody would live since we are all guilty of at least one of these at one time or another, of these sins & crimes.
Secondly, it the New Covenant is a superior Covenant and this covenant does not mandate the government to use the death penalty.
I like Enyart and support him when it comes to the essentials of the faith. But, I believe he's dead wrong on this issue. I recommend reading the New Covenant and looking at the Old Covenant through the lens of the New.
Yep. I'm with you.
The Old Covenant called for the death penalty in these cases too:
-cursing parents
-for abusing one's parents
-for careless handling of an animal
-for stubbornness and rebellion
-for blasphemy
-for working on Saturday
-for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge
-for perjury
-A male who was not circumcised
-Manufacturing anointing oil
-Consuming blood
-Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating
-Persons teaching another religion
-Gluttony and excessive drinking
Those who endorse the death penaty would like for the government to put to death these people too. The problem is, first of all, nobody would live since we are all guilty of at least one of these at one time or another, of these sins & crimes.
Secondly, it the New Covenant is a superior Covenant and this covenant does not mandate the government to use the death penalty.
The New Covenant does not mandate the government to use the death penalty.
They are in effect in Islamic nations.
I don't believe the government should peddle within families unless absolutely necessary.
It would not serve as a deterance since man is totally depraved. Romans 3:10 and all.
It's the death penalty crimes, actually. Can't say I have the slightest problems with any restitution or corporeal punishment crimes at all. But some to the death penalty crimes (drunken/rebellious son, child who curses parents, adultery, etc.) are so far removed from today's thinking on these issues that it's difficult to get your mind around it. Hey, I'm a conservative christian. I understand how destructive these things are and I can read the bible as well as anyone else. I see God outlaw these things and command Israel to inflict the death penalty in these cases. You can't argue that the death penalty is the right punishment for these crimes if that's what God commanded.
But, as clear cut as that seems to be...still. It's tough.
Let me first say this; the one about a rebellious son; today if we have a rebellious son in our household; the usual progession is this.
We may indeed go seek counseling with our son in our church or synagogue, they may help us fine tune our parenting skills, sometimes; unknowingly we are the cause of their rebellion; NT tells fathers do not provoke your children, so perhaps we have unknowingly provoked our child, made them angery; so we adjust our parenting sytle, all is well. Or maybe we adjust our style and still we have a rebellious son; next thing we know they are in trouble with the law, they do time in juvenal detention, we pray, they are let out, and they get in deeper trouble and now they have killed someone; boom they may indeed get the death sentence. So this law which we think is ancient can still plays itself out.
The next thing we need to understand is this; before the passage that sates; if someone lies in wait to take the life of another, and we have a dead body, and a weapon, and a cause; then execute them for the murder; it also says the reason (which is not to deter, not to help someone feel a sense of closure) G-d's purpose is to remove evil from you.
We find the requirements for judges. They must be impartial; not take bribes, not have a law for the poor and one for the rich, . So in order for a "just corporal" punishment it is very important that your justice system is not corrupt. It puts the U.S. in a very tough spot; for indeed; there is evil amoung us for there are repeat rapists, murders; who should have been executed; but no they live amoung us; why??? Because the legal system is corrupt. Do judges take bribes; I suppose they do; may be not money; but certainly trade one judgement for another, political and professional favors, is there a justice for the rich that's different from poor? There is one for entertainment celebrities that's different from you and me, there is one for "sports g-d's" that's different from you and me (even simple trafic violations are gone unoticed for Denver Broncos, wife beating is common amoung them as well as our gov't officials.)
So it makes it ruff, right; to say yes to captial punichment if the system is corrupt. Do I think then that it's ok for some judges to realese those wainting for death penalty because they might be innocent? No they must reveiw each case and show just cause for releasing a convicted murder/rapist. Remember how Saddam Hussain released all his prisoners just before U.S. invaded? Why? So they'd join up to come back and fight the Americans.
Also you need to know that in Israel; the Sanhedren every 40 years reviewed all the laws and punishments; they would bring them current to their modern time. So there were changes they could make in ritual and civial laws according to the times.
It is also said amoung the misticks that to "stone" someone meant to bring them to the Torah, have them read G-d's word for themselves and the spirit would convict them to change. This still works quite well in raising children; if a child is disobediant; show them G-d's word where it says 'children be obediant to your mother/father for this is right in G-d's eyes and there is a promise of long life if you do"; then the child sees and understands this is not his parents idea it's G-d's idea; usually helps them want to change.
Adultry - that's a tough one. But also keep in mind that when the nation of Israel was in total rebellion to G-d and did not keep His commands; he spoke of her a a rebellions or adulterous wife. Hosea is a good example for this. And those people in excile were spoken of by G-d as "not his people" they did not keep Sabbath, the FEASTS of the LORD, so if you looked around it was though she was dead; you couldn't find her because the Mosaic Covenant put distinquishing marks upon His people Sabbath, Circumcision, Feasts, Kosher Food.
Adulty is damaging to the life of another in their soul; spouse and children, if there is divorce; divorce is like the death of a spouse an parent; execpt no funeral. What dies in adultry is trust; if a person is strong and willing you can reserect trust/ but it's a long process of counseling.
Now the difference here is we are asking if the U.S. gov't should invoke death penalty? That makes it real ruff. I struggle with that myself. When we see how damaging it is to the family, extended family, sometimes to friends; and then on a community; it seems there should be some penalty. Look at all the dead beat parents; most likely there was some adulty going on there.
Also you must remember the G-d's Covenant with Israel was the National Constitution as it were; but was also up to each individual to know it line by line to live it. If you know your child will be stoned for cursing you'd take as many parenting classes as you could and keep up with how children grow and mature you'd put a lot of effort into parenting right? So if you looked at the many books of case law of Israel; you'd see there was very little capital punishment needed; why? Because of very good teaching by scribes, parents; because there was extended family members to help; because everyone parent and child knew the cnsequences. Indeed if there were many capital punishments; the teachers were interogated first; were they doing their job?
But, as clear cut as that seems to be...still. It's tough.
Let me first say this; the one about a rebellious son; today if we have a rebellious son in our household; the usual progession is this.
We may indeed go seek counseling with our son in our church or synagogue, they may help us fine tune our parenting skills, sometimes; unknowingly we are the cause of their rebellion; NT tells fathers do not provoke your children, so perhaps we have unknowingly provoked our child, made them angery; so we adjust our parenting sytle, all is well. Or maybe we adjust our style and still we have a rebellious son; next thing we know they are in trouble with the law, they do time in juvenal detention, we pray, they are let out, and they get in deeper trouble and now they have killed someone; boom they may indeed get the death sentence. So this law which we think is ancient can still plays itself out.
The next thing we need to understand is this; before the passage that sates; if someone lies in wait to take the life of another, and we have a dead body, and a weapon, and a cause; then execute them for the murder; it also says the reason (which is not to deter, not to help someone feel a sense of closure) G-d's purpose is to remove evil from you.
We find the requirements for judges. They must be impartial; not take bribes, not have a law for the poor and one for the rich, . So in order for a "just corporal" punishment it is very important that your justice system is not corrupt. It puts the U.S. in a very tough spot; for indeed; there is evil amoung us for there are repeat rapists, murders; who should have been executed; but no they live amoung us; why??? Because the legal system is corrupt. Do judges take bribes; I suppose they do; may be not money; but certainly trade one judgement for another, political and professional favors, is there a justice for the rich that's different from poor? There is one for entertainment celebrities that's different from you and me, there is one for "sports g-d's" that's different from you and me (even simple trafic violations are gone unoticed for Denver Broncos, wife beating is common amoung them as well as our gov't officials.)
So it makes it ruff, right; to say yes to captial punichment if the system is corrupt. Do I think then that it's ok for some judges to realese those wainting for death penalty because they might be innocent? No they must reveiw each case and show just cause for releasing a convicted murder/rapist. Remember how Saddam Hussain released all his prisoners just before U.S. invaded? Why? So they'd join up to come back and fight the Americans.
Also you need to know that in Israel; the Sanhedren every 40 years reviewed all the laws and punishments; they would bring them current to their modern time. So there were changes they could make in ritual and civial laws according to the times.
It is also said amoung the misticks that to "stone" someone meant to bring them to the Torah, have them read G-d's word for themselves and the spirit would convict them to change. This still works quite well in raising children; if a child is disobediant; show them G-d's word where it says 'children be obediant to your mother/father for this is right in G-d's eyes and there is a promise of long life if you do"; then the child sees and understands this is not his parents idea it's G-d's idea; usually helps them want to change.
Adultry - that's a tough one. But also keep in mind that when the nation of Israel was in total rebellion to G-d and did not keep His commands; he spoke of her a a rebellions or adulterous wife. Hosea is a good example for this. And those people in excile were spoken of by G-d as "not his people" they did not keep Sabbath, the FEASTS of the LORD, so if you looked around it was though she was dead; you couldn't find her because the Mosaic Covenant put distinquishing marks upon His people Sabbath, Circumcision, Feasts, Kosher Food.
Adulty is damaging to the life of another in their soul; spouse and children, if there is divorce; divorce is like the death of a spouse an parent; execpt no funeral. What dies in adultry is trust; if a person is strong and willing you can reserect trust/ but it's a long process of counseling.
Now the difference here is we are asking if the U.S. gov't should invoke death penalty? That makes it real ruff. I struggle with that myself. When we see how damaging it is to the family, extended family, sometimes to friends; and then on a community; it seems there should be some penalty. Look at all the dead beat parents; most likely there was some adulty going on there.
Also you must remember the G-d's Covenant with Israel was the National Constitution as it were; but was also up to each individual to know it line by line to live it. If you know your child will be stoned for cursing you'd take as many parenting classes as you could and keep up with how children grow and mature you'd put a lot of effort into parenting right? So if you looked at the many books of case law of Israel; you'd see there was very little capital punishment needed; why? Because of very good teaching by scribes, parents; because there was extended family members to help; because everyone parent and child knew the cnsequences. Indeed if there were many capital punishments; the teachers were interogated first; were they doing their job?
The Old Covenant called for the death penalty in these cases too:
-cursing parents
-for abusing one's parents
-for careless handling of an animal
-for stubbornness and rebellion
-for blasphemy
-for working on Saturday
-for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge
-for perjury
-A male who was not circumcised
-Manufacturing anointing oil
-Consuming blood
-Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating
-Persons teaching another religion
-Gluttony and excessive drinking
You know to be an Israelite meant your identy was in keeping the command of G-d like Sabbath, so their is a death of national identity; in not consuming blood (their may be something in the blood that will kill you) you can get disease from having sex with menstrating woman, it may indeed kill you, a person teaching another religion - that's is identiy death to that person they are no longer an Israelite,
And again in the case of a rebellion son; sometimes that rebellion goes unchecked the the child is rebellious to teachers, police; the law; and they wind updoing crimes that have captial punishment attached.
You have read these very slowly and ask G0d to give you wisdom to understand how it applies to your life today. Also there had to be two or three witnesses; and it seems like also the jury would handed out sentences were the ones to throw the stones. I think that helps keep people to be real honest when they hand out sentences don't you.
-cursing parents
-for abusing one's parents
-for careless handling of an animal
-for stubbornness and rebellion
-for blasphemy
-for working on Saturday
-for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge
-for perjury
-A male who was not circumcised
-Manufacturing anointing oil
-Consuming blood
-Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating
-Persons teaching another religion
-Gluttony and excessive drinking
You know to be an Israelite meant your identy was in keeping the command of G-d like Sabbath, so their is a death of national identity; in not consuming blood (their may be something in the blood that will kill you) you can get disease from having sex with menstrating woman, it may indeed kill you, a person teaching another religion - that's is identiy death to that person they are no longer an Israelite,
And again in the case of a rebellion son; sometimes that rebellion goes unchecked the the child is rebellious to teachers, police; the law; and they wind updoing crimes that have captial punishment attached.
You have read these very slowly and ask G0d to give you wisdom to understand how it applies to your life today. Also there had to be two or three witnesses; and it seems like also the jury would handed out sentences were the ones to throw the stones. I think that helps keep people to be real honest when they hand out sentences don't you.
Also you need to remember; that the U. S. mentality is "individual freedom"; the Israelite mentality is 'community'; people were responsible for one another; to encourage, to correct them if they were wrong; community watched over all the children. Some rulal communities still operate this way; all the adults know all the children and all the parents; there was more accountablity; less maverick individualism as we have in the U.S.
Granted, the whole weight of the death penalty is its' deterence, and the very existence of these laws on the books will serve to strongly deter these behaviors.
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It would not serve as a deterance since man is totally depraved. Romans 3:10 and all.
In G0D's word, He does not say to invoke capital punishment as a deterance (although it certainly may act as such for a few, there are some who may think twice before they murder) but to remove evil from your midst.
If your justice system has little corruption; then there should be no repeat rapists, murders, or pedophiles. They'd be dead and have no more evil influence on society.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would not serve as a deterance since man is totally depraved. Romans 3:10 and all.
In G0D's word, He does not say to invoke capital punishment as a deterance (although it certainly may act as such for a few, there are some who may think twice before they murder) but to remove evil from your midst.
If your justice system has little corruption; then there should be no repeat rapists, murders, or pedophiles. They'd be dead and have no more evil influence on society.
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