God made the wicked !

[Nanja]

Amen, so easy to see to them that have eyes to see!

Isn't that the Truth, Brother !

 

[Nanja]

Hogwash!

Nope, that's the Truth, they are God's Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23.

 

[Nanja]

Amen, so easy to see to them that have eyes to see!

Yep!

 

[beloved57]

God is reserving the ungodly wicked, the vessels of wrath unto the day of judgment ! 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 

[clefty]

God is reserving the ungodly wicked, the vessels of wrath unto the day of judgment ! 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Reserving the unjust for the day of judgement is NOT creating some to only do evil...

Just like verse 4 He delivered angels into chains who sinned to be reserved for judgement IS NOT creating evil angels...

Just like 5 Noah saved from an ungodly world...IS NOT creating an ungodly world to destroy it

6 Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes as examples...IS NOT creating cities just to make ashes

7 delivering Lot who was oppressed....CHOSE to go live there...

10 They are presumptious...CHOOSE TO BE...

in fact Peter compares these that CHOOSE EVIL to animals who are made to be caught and destroyed...but that IS NOT that they ARE...but compared to...

14 Speaks of TRAINED hearts of covetousness...

15 they have FORSAKEN the right way and gone astray...which means they were on it...made a choice...

20 they HAD ESCAPED but became entangled again

21 better to have NOT known the way than turn from the holy commandment...

But you insist that is HOW HE MADE THEM...to choose against His ways...

 

[Nanja]

God is reserving the ungodly wicked, the vessels of wrath unto the day of judgment ! 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Amen Brother, these ungodly wicked / non-elect vessels of wrath were appointed by the Power of God to be disobedient,
whom He has reserved to be punished in the Day of Judgment.

So there was never any hope of salvation for them; because the Gospel to them is only a savour of death unto death:


2 Cor. 2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[clefty]

Amen Brother, these ungodly wicked / non-elect vessels of wrath were appointed by the Power of God to be disobedient, whom He has reserved to be punished in the Day of Judgment.

being reserved to be punished because of choices made is NOT being created to only make those choices...

So there was never any hope of salvation for them; because the Gospel to them is only a savour of death unto death:

as if you joined TOL in order to ignore people...and not that you decided to ignore after you joined...

but it is not for you and your fan club I write (who SEAL themselves up in ignorancing) but for those who are still being saved or perishing...

2 Cor. 2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

you missed the previous verse...of course...where there are two categories of 1) those BEING SAVED and B) those PERISHING...in other words they were NOT BORN into each category...unable to switch sides...

Paul writes of being SEALED 2 Cor 1:22 thus qualified for such work to determine those in vs out...

and then proceeds with instructions on CHURCH DISCIPLINE PUNISHMENT AND FORGVINESS to FORGIVE and REAFFIRM their LOVE to one repentant “lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with TOO MUCH SORROW...lest Satan should take advantage” verses 7,11

We all sin...and fail...does NOT mean we were created to do so and to remain so...but that this message forces a choice...

One which was already for this ekklesia in the OT wilderness...”Choose ye this day whom ye will serve” Joshua 24:15

Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

AGAIN you miss that John has revealed verse 7 He is coming quickly present tense...and is told by the angel verse 10 NOT TO SEAL the prophecy of THIS BOOK for the TIME is at hand...what time? of HIS COMING...JUDGEMENT IS ALREADY DONE at the time of His coming...blessed are those who DO His commandments but OUTSIDE ARE those that practice a LIE...sound familiar?

Judgement is completed by verse 11...the categories have been established...who is in vs out...

You make it seem verse 11 was written in Genesis...Gen 1:37 ”So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created Him male and female in and saved VS. out to be tormented forever He created them”...LOL

Except it ain’t funny what monster you make of Him...such idolatry

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, these ungodly wicked / non-elect vessels of wrath were appointed by the Power of God to be disobedient,
whom He has reserved to be punished in the Day of Judgment.

So there was never any hope of salvation for them; because the Gospel to them is only a savour of death unto death:


2 Cor. 2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Amen Sister I

 

[Gary K]

Exactly Brother, the wicked non-elect have been foreordained to condemnation Jude 1:4, and given over to a reprobate mind Rom. 1:28.
God Purposed to fit them more and more for the day of destruction.

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The twisting of this passage of scripture is amazing as it doesn't mean what you Piperist's say it means. Paul says it was "needful" for him to write to his audience and exhort them to earnestly contend for the faith delivered to the saints. Why? Because ungodly men were turning the grace of God into immorality and denying Jesus.

Now why should Paul exhort them to earnestly contend for the faith in Jesus? The ungodly cannot believe the truth about Jesus, and the rest of the church cannot be lost, at least according to Piperists. So why is diligence needed? Nothing can ever change because God already made everyone's choices back in the mists of eternity rather than allowing them to make a single choice. So, Paul is either lying about his beliefs, or he just can't figure out what he really believes. And you believe his ignorance or deceit is convincing evidence for your position. It's enough to make sane man's head spin in reaction to your "logic'.

You guys don't even understand what you read. You're reading your beliefs into scripture, instead of reading truth and following it. You have to deny the meaning of the English and Greek languages to arrive at your conclusions. And you think that is a great thing to do? You think those are convincing arguments? I don't see it. To me it makes you look like either idiots or duplicitous liars.

 

[beloved57]

The twisting of this passage of scripture is amazing as it doesn't mean what you Piperist's say it means. Paul says it was "needful" for him to write to his audience and exhort them to earnestly contend for the faith delivered to the saints. Why? Because ungodly men were turning the grace of God into immorality and denying Jesus.

Now why should Paul exhort them to earnestly contend for the faith in Jesus? The ungodly cannot believe the truth about Jesus, and the rest of the church cannot be lost, at least according to Piperists. So why is diligence needed? Nothing can ever change because God already made everyone's choices back in the mists of eternity rather than allowing them to make a single choice. So, Paul is either lying about his beliefs, or he just can't figure out what he really believes. And you believe his ignorance or deceit is convincing evidence for your position. It's enough to make sane man's head spin in reaction to your "logic'.

You guys don't even understand what you read. You're reading your beliefs into scripture, instead of reading truth and following it. You have to deny the meaning of the English and Greek languages to arrive at your conclusions. And you think that is a great thing to do? You think those are convincing arguments? I don't see it. To me it makes you look like either idiots or duplicitous liars.

What are you talking about ? Does not Jude 4 clearly state that some had been ordained to condemnation ? Jude 1:4

⁴ For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your response here is nothing but another evasive rabit trail !

 

[Gary K]

What are you talking about ? Does not Jude 4 clearly state that some had been ordained to condemnation ? Jude 1:4

⁴ For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your response here is nothing but another evasive rabit trail !

LOL. Your reading comprehension skills are sadly lacking. Tell me, what reasons did Paul give for writing Jude in verses 1-3? Now tell me why those are valid reasons for writing it? Explain why there was a need for diligence? Why was it "needful" for Paul to write? Why did his audience have a need to "earnestly exhort" for truth?

I doubt you will answer a single question of mine as so far you have failed to answer a single question of mine in this entire thread.

 

[beloved57]

LOL. Your reading comprehension skills are sadly lacking. Tell me, what reasons did Paul give for writing Jude in verses 1-3? Now tell me why those are valid reasons for writing it? Explain why there was a need for diligence? Why was it "needful" for Paul to write? Why did his audience have a need to "earnestly exhort" for truth?

I doubt you will answer a single question of mine as so far you have failed to answer a single question of mine in this entire thread.

More rabbit trail. BTW Paul didnt write the book of Jude, Jude did. So you need to check your reading comprehension skills. Now does Jude 1:4 say

Jude 1:4

⁴ For there are certain men crept in unawares,who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

That some were ordained to condemnation ?