ECT Gifts of the Spirit
- Thread starter Nick M
- Start date
I will let you know...it will be when the rapture happens and the Church Age ends (ushering in Tribulation).
Zeke
Well-known member
I believe Christ was raised and have tasted the Spirit. And I have seen plenty of folks like you as well at the magic building sites, who can't discern the time they live in and do the great pretend at the cost of reality, and seen the dispair from those not healed because they were led to believe they lived in the time of signs and wonders.
You do more harm than good by falshly leading people in a time long past.
The Spirit works but not in the same manner of the pentecostal period. God may heal but not through a mans ministery on any sunday.
Zeke
Well-known member
yup...there are still lots of spiritual vegetarians around today. Enjoy your greens
Not to mention an over stocked-bin of pretenders.
She attends a Baptist Church (they are usually cessationists).
The problem is not the verse, but your twisted interpretation/application of it. I am surprised you don't negate it since it is not in the best and oldest MSS.
graceandpeace
New member
nope..I claim no tag' other than christian. I once agreed to EL, but I have come to the conclusion that these tags do nothing more than get a lil itchy round the neck area...(the part that holds us to Christ).
I see some abuse in the charismatic movement with the gifts of the holy spirit; tongues being one of them. (Not that I don't believe in tongues), but sometimes people fake it; just to be accepted..my brother went through that, and later told the truth.
I agree tongues was a sign for non believers..and, that God does not need it much these days..because most everyone speaks english...the universal language.
It is still being used today though, because it is used in the church I now attend; I am an American english speaking woman, living in French quarters of Quebec. The church I attend has an interpreter interpretting for me...the service into english...for it is wholly in french. This sign shows those whom would come into the congregation that God is able to preach the good news to all...no matter what language one speaks. The man that is interpretting for me is very gifted by the holy spirit to get the word across to me in the same light it is shed abroad to himself.
:wave2:
graceandpeace
New member
The gifts of the Spirit are supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit through the Church/believers. The power of the Spirit was also evident in the OT. The gifts are in the same chapter as the Body of Christ metaphor, so it disappoints me that MAD does not take Pauline truth seriously, just selectively. I Cor. 12-14 is about the use and abuse of spiritual gifts, not their supposed cessation. There is no exegetical basis for cessationism. The closing of the canon is not the issue, but the return of Christ for the Church is when they are not needed. They are given to the Church for the Church Age and have a variety of positive benefits. One is not reading I Cor. 14 verse by verse if you think it is only a sign for unbelievers or Israel.
Acts 2 is not about preaching the gospel in tongues. They were converted with Peter's message in a learned language. Tongues was the initial, physical evidence of a subsequent-to-conversion work of the Spirit. It is intended for and available to all Christians. God restored and reemphasized these truths in a dramatic way with the Pentecostal revivals in the 1900s. The largest and fastest growing group in the Church is Pentecostal-Charismatics.
We could look at each gift in the lists and see their positive benefit. If one is going to selectivley weed out tongues, prophecies, prophets, apostles, then we should throw out the others that most of you routinely accept (based on grammar/exegesis).
Nick says we have unbelief for not handling snakes (like some Pentecostal fringe idiots who die) or drinking poison. The real unbelief is rejecting the supernatural work of the Spirit in every generation, glory to God.
Minimally, we see tongues for self and corporate edification (when interpreted). It is NOT preaching the gospel and the sign for unbelievers is a secondary issue when they see the supernatural gift in the midst of His people.
andyc
New member
1Cor 1:5-7 For in him you have been enriched in every way—in all your speaking and in all your knowledge—6 because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you.7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
Christ hasn't yet been revealed, so we shouldn't lack spiritual gifts while we're waiting for him to be revealed.
Acts 2:17-20
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.18 ............20......Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
Same thing here. The gifts of the Spirit should be in operation up until the day that Christ returns.
graceandpeace
New member
well, I thought you said they were not for today?
Nick:
Let me speak to what I am talking about. When a new person comes into the body of Christ, and they are not familiar with the love, joy, peace, patience, etc...and, they see it displayed by the people in the congregation, they get a picture of what God is about; and, also, concerning the spiritual gifts of teaching, they are taught the gospel message, by the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues..(if they are in an area, as I am that doesnt speak english, they see the fruit of that wonderful gift, too. Likewise, the gifts of healing, I have been healed before, when my faith was weak...not much healing takes place though, once you are rooted in Christ, because, it too...was a sign to show the weak, the power of God...it is the same with all the other gifts...in my opinion.
Do you still need scripture or what? These things should be common knowledge, but I can go dig, if need be.
Nick:
It is MAD that is sad.
You have blocked some of God's people from His sacrifice...if you cannot see how sad that is, I do not know what to say.
When you wake up and realise there is no such thing as a earthly kingdom, OUTside of Christ and His heavenly one...you will see what I mean.
Nick:
I don't agree with him on alot...but, he seems to accept Jesus sacrifice for his sin, and even if he didnt...I will do as God told me, and let the law condemn him...it is not my place.
wrong, I openly state what is for me, and what is not. The problem with Mad is that you have taken the law completely out, when it is God's TOOL to bring people to Christ. Paul as did Jesus spoke the jew as a jew, but, you cannot seem to grasp that when you are holy spirit led, you know the difference. Not one time, have I ever claimed to need to be doing something that is only for a sinner to learn and grow by..through the law.
How does your church bring people to Christ if you have no law to teach them that they need a Savior by?
I don't understand you guys..on that part...you throw God's LAW out and it's purpose, too.
I will stick with what I know the truth to be, I will be just like you and point out error....as I see it; and my NEW motto is "let the reader decide".
I am through judging people by my own conscience....I will judge doctrine...yours is borderline heresy. That is my opinion...I do have a right to it. If I don't then live by your own rule and stop condemning Godrulz....over and over everyday...it is such hypocrisy.
Nick:
I agree..but, it edifies me, too..since I am the one receiving the interpretation in the church I am now attending..it being wholly French, and I only speak English. (My husband is French)
graceandpeace
New member
I agree, but I don't see tongues as some supernatural language....but, a interpretting gospel messages from one real language to another.
My mom told me a story about her childhood, where there was a pentecostal minister..and, when she was a child in church, she saw the minister doing the mysterious 'tongue' language..with one eye shut and the other one open, looking about the room, to see whom was watching...there is much abuse of tongues...in mho.
My own brother had to pretend to do it; to be accepted in his group..and later admitted it, out of humility.
If there is a different type of tongues than known languages..I know no one that has truly done it; but, that does not mean I would judge those whom say they do..it is their own conscience, and they alone know for sure what they have experienced.
andyc
New member
I grew up in an AOG church, and for ten years I wanted to speak in tongues, but I refused to speak in carnal gibberish just for the heck of it. I had preachers and evangelists whack me on the head and throw their arms up in despair because I refused to perform form them. I had the attitude that if I was going to receive tongues, God would have to fill my mouth with a heavenly language. I had people telling me that I wasn't holy and dedicated enough to receive, and my pastor used to preach sermons at me from the pulpit telling me that God would not fill a dirty vessel. I know how it feels to be excluded from the tongues club, and then there were times that I questioned whether it was real or not because I felt ignored. But I clung to the word of God. This is why I put such a high value on the gift of tongues, it is such a powerful gift.
Zeke
Well-known member
The problem is the facts show that the gifts that are manifesting are not within the same range, or power in the period of signs and wonders.
I don't reject God power I reject bad theology, and those who try and say those powers are being manifested in the churches! I say where are they? I would love for those powers to be reality, I don't mention my personal life but I have a daugther that has maybe two three year left 23 years old with a rare blood disease as a father it eats on me daily because I am helpless to do a friggen thing about it!!!!!
So of all people I wish to God we were in that period, I would tear the roof to let her down to healed, call me, tell what Church can heal her Godrulz, Andy, Tet, anybody???????
If we are in that period and he won't heal her then Gods a jerk and want no part of Him.
Seydlitz77
New member
Stop twisting scripture to justify your own lack of Faith that signs, gifts, and wonders could still happen.
Your exacting interpretation of Mark 16:18 KJV would only work if we had canonical record that the apostles sought out serpents and poisonous substances but the record doesn't say that. The only recorded occurrence of this sign is with Paul and there is no indication that he even knew the viper was there before he was bitten.
Your challenge is the exact same in evil purpose as that posed to Christ on the mountaintop and the response to you is the same.
graceandpeace
New member
So, have you spoken in it yet?...or are you like me and see it as a known language to be interpretted so the person not knowing that known language can know when to say amen, as the bible says?
(again...I am not saying there is no 'other' type...of a unknown language, I just don't see that in the word of God.)..but, to each his own...if God made you gibber jabber, I wont judge you on it..at all.
He made me dance around in the rain once.:up:
andyc
New member
All diseases are nothing to God, but you have to come to place where you're persuaded by the word of God.
graceandpeace
New member
The problem is....it is NOT man that does it. It is the works of the holy spirit...man is merely the vessel. God does not always heal..sometimes He says no. My mom had more faith than anyone I know...or have known my entire life and she had pancreatic cancer and prayed to be healed..and wasnt. The good news is, she prayed in the right fashion..."Lord IF it be your will, heal me".
Sometimes His will is no.
Your story about your daughter tears my heart out...just know that she is in good hands, and if God wants to heal her HE will, and if not; Well, He knows best.
My mom never questioned God, and laughed and remained joyful til the moment of death. I hope to do as well as her when I face death; but, we know that in reality death is just a bedtime nap...we pass straight from death to life! amen.
Seydlitz77
New member
You forget that none of these things happen according to man's will but God's.
There are countless people that God and His servants can save from sickness or distress but few actually are (Luke 4:25-27 KJV). We have the have the Faith expressed by Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in Daniel 3:17-18 KJV. God rewards Faith but often in times of distress He is interested in our statement which follows "but if not...". Remember Christ wished relief from His own distress in the Garden but it was not granted.
andyc
New member
After I had a powerful revelation of the love of God I went for a walk in the countryside one day and the anointing on me was so strong I wanted to worship God beyond what I was physically able. For the first time I decided to speak gibberish, and then I laughed at it, but when I went to worship in English the flood gates opened in my innermost being and a heavenly language flowed out.
Now I pray and worship in tongues all the time, its completely natural to me.