Genesis 1-3 / Imagery?

[Tattooed Theist]

So, I'm sure this has been discussed in some fashion before, but I searched for recent threads and came up empty handed. This is a topic that, at least where I am geographically, is denied and buried in the depths of heretical theology. To which I cringe and continue the topic to the listers dismay. It needs to be spoken about and considered and I simply don't see or hear other pastors conversing on the topic.

Something I've been speaking with several colleagues about recently is the concept of Genesis 1-3 being imagery rather than literal.

In the Babylonian story of creation we see an irrefutable connection to what we read in Genesis.
It's truly undeniable.
Much of what I have found is that Genesis, rather than a literal story of creation, is a response to the babylonian story of creation. Saying "God created out of love. Creation wasn't created during a cosmic battle of babylonian Gods."

"The many points of similarity between the two traditions is conclusive proof that one story was derived from the other (or that both were derived from a still older original).

According to liberal theologians, the Babylonian account of creation was written in the 12th century BCE, centuries earlier than the Biblical account. According to conservative Christian theologians, the opposite happened: the Babylonian account was written after the Biblical account."
Source

The Chart found here is a good side by side to wrap your head around it.

Furthermore, modern science points us farther and farther away from the possibility of Genesis 1-3 being literal

I'm curious as to, if this is something any of you have studied, what your conclusion was - and why?

 

[jamie]

Something I've been speaking with several colleagues about recently is the concept of Genesis 1-3 being imagery rather than literal.

In Mark 10:6 Jesus says, "But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female."

I take this as being literal.

Satan knew God's plans for humans and counterfeited a creation story before Moses. Satan is a slick one.

 

[patrick jane]

So, I'm sure this has been discussed in some fashion before, but I searched for recent threads and came up empty handed. This is a topic that, at least where I am geographically, is denied and buried in the depths of heretical theology. To which I cringe and continue the topic to the listers dismay. It needs to be spoken about and considered and I simply don't see or hear other pastors conversing on the topic.

Something I've been speaking with several colleagues about recently is the concept of Genesis 1-3 being imagery rather than literal.

In the Babylonian story of creation we see an irrefutable connection to what we read in Genesis.
It's truly undeniable.
Much of what I have found is that Genesis, rather than a literal story of creation, is a response to the babylonian story of creation. Saying "God created out of love. Creation wasn't created during a cosmic battle of babylonian Gods."

"The many points of similarity between the two traditions is conclusive proof that one story was derived from the other (or that both were derived from a still older original).

According to liberal theologians, the Babylonian account of creation was written in the 12th century BCE, centuries earlier than the Biblical account. According to conservative Christian theologians, the opposite happened: the Babylonian account was written after the Biblical account."
Source

The Chart found here is a good side by side to wrap your head around it.

Furthermore, modern science points us farther and farther away from the possibility of Genesis 1-3 being literal

I'm curious as to, if this is something any of you have studied, what your conclusion was - and why?

Genesis gets discussed in depth on the creation vs evolution thread by 6days and others

 

[Tattooed Theist]

In Mark 10:6 Jesus says, "But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female."

I take this as being literal.

Satan knew God's plans for humans and counterfeited a creation story before Moses. Satan is a slick one.

How do you account for modern science that very much makes the story of creation an impossibility?

To clarify I'm not speaking of the verse you quoted. God obvious created us and everything here, I'm implying that it did not happen as Genesis illustrates.


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[jamie]

To clarify I'm not speaking of the verse you quoted. God obvious created us and everything here, I'm implying that it did not happen as Genesis illustrates.

The Genesis account is about shaping the earth and air for humans, it does not give an account of pre-Adamic history which must be gleaned elsewhere.

It's my understanding that the Genesis account picks up with an earth covered by water, which means to me the sun already existed but clouds caused darkness to surround the planet. Clouds are water vapor caused by evaporation due to heat.

Diminish the clouds and now there is sunlight illuminating the surface of the waters, and the account goes on from there.

It seems the earth is three to five billion years old and the universe older than that, but God shaped the earth to be suitable for humans instead of its first inhabitants mentioned by Jude.

And so it goes...

 

[Tambora]

Furthermore, modern science points us farther and farther away from the possibility of Genesis 1-3 being literal

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
― Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

 

[Tattooed Theist]

The Genesis account is about shaping the earth and air for humans, it does not give an account of pre-Adamic history which must be gleaned elsewhere.

It's my understanding that the Genesis account picks up with an earth covered by water, which means to me the sun already existed but clouds caused darkness to surround the planet. Clouds are water vapor caused by evaporation due to heat.

Diminish the clouds and now there is sunlight illuminating the surface of the waters, and the account goes on from there.

It seems the earth is three to five billion years old and the universe older than that, but God shaped the earth to be suitable for humans instead of its first inhabitants mentioned by Jude.

And so it goes...

Interesting, this is a slight variation to several of the theories I've read through.
Thank you for your input.

 

[SimpleMan77]

So, I'm sure this has been discussed in some fashion before, but I searched for recent threads and came up empty handed. This is a topic that, at least where I am geographically, is denied and buried in the depths of heretical theology. To which I cringe and continue the topic to the listers dismay. It needs to be spoken about and considered and I simply don't see or hear other pastors conversing on the topic.

Something I've been speaking with several colleagues about recently is the concept of Genesis 1-3 being imagery rather than literal.

In the Babylonian story of creation we see an irrefutable connection to what we read in Genesis.
It's truly undeniable.
Much of what I have found is that Genesis, rather than a literal story of creation, is a response to the babylonian story of creation. Saying "God created out of love. Creation wasn't created during a cosmic battle of babylonian Gods."

"The many points of similarity between the two traditions is conclusive proof that one story was derived from the other (or that both were derived from a still older original).

According to liberal theologians, the Babylonian account of creation was written in the 12th century BCE, centuries earlier than the Biblical account. According to conservative Christian theologians, the opposite happened: the Babylonian account was written after the Biblical account."
Source

The Chart found here is a good side by side to wrap your head around it.

Furthermore, modern science points us farther and farther away from the possibility of Genesis 1-3 being literal

I'm curious as to, if this is something any of you have studied, what your conclusion was - and why?

As to why the accounts are similar, keep this in mind. If you and I have the same grandfather 10 generations back, and our family has a penchant for passing down stories, there is a great chance that we both will have legends that sound the same.

However, stories change over time due to memory loss and other factors, especially due to theology. As the ancestors of the Babylonians went into the worship of false gods, they didn't discard the story of creation, they simply changed it to meet their agenda.

The Jewish people stayed with the one true God, so there was no incentive to change the story. In fact, their understanding of the one true God was that he was a God of truth, and would punish anyone who changed the story at all. There was a huge disincentive to change it.

You will also find stories that sound similar to the flood, for the same reason.


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[jamie]

Jesus was familiar with the Genesis account and he said scripture cannot be broken.

 

[Tattooed Theist]

However, stories change over time due to memory loss and other factors, especially due to theology. As the ancestors of the Babylonians went into the worship of false gods, they didn't discard the story of creation, they simply changed it to meet their agenda.

From my understanding, or what I have read rather, Their story preceded ours.
I had read that the Moses wrote it as a response to the Babylonian creation story.

I do appreciate your response.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Genesis 1-3 / Imagery?

From my understanding, or what I have read rather, Their story preceded ours.
I had read that the Moses wrote it as a response to the Babylonian creation story.

I do appreciate your response.

Both stories were passed down through generations, so finding an older copy written down doesn't mean the story itself is older.

If people who wrote them down were the authors of the story, then you could say so.

I don't believe there's anywhere in the Bible that says that God gave the Genesis story to Moses like he gave the law to him. Moses was writing down both History which had been passed down and Revelation given by God.


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[Tattooed Theist]

True, true.

Wouldn't you say that order does matter though? In terms of moses' recording of history? That it would shed a much more specific light on our story of creation?


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[6days]

In Mark 10:6 Jesus says, "But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female."

Yes... Jesus obviously was referencing the creation account...the beginning. We have the geneaologies from the first couple He referred to (Marriage of Adam and Eve) to Christ.

 

[Tattooed Theist]

Yes... Jesus obviously was referencing the creation account...the beginning. We have the geneaologies from the first couple He referred to (Marriage of Adam and Eve) to Christ.

Yup,


What is your view? I've seen your quite informed on topics such as this?


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[6days]

What is your view?

Although Genesis has history of being attacked, the majority of fathers of faith right back to the time of Christ accepted Genesis as literal history. Various Bible authors and even Jesus refer to Genesis as literal true history.

 

[Tattooed Theist]

Although Genesis has history of being attacked, the majority of fathers of faith right back to the time of Christ accepted Genesis as literal history. Various Bible authors and even Jesus refer to Genesis as literal true history.

Yes of course, this I'm aware of. Although it didn't answer my question.
I'm curious as to your personal opinion and why.

I'm interested in hearing people's unique views on the subject.


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[Rondonmonson]

How do you account for modern science that very much makes the story of creation an impossibility?

To clarify I'm not speaking of the verse you quoted. God obvious created us and everything here, I'm implying that it did not happen as Genesis illustrates.


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Or maybe you are just not grasping God's EXPLANATION. Hebrew is a very limited language, with like 4000 words at the time, compared with 500,000 English words today. The word YOM used for Day has like 50 meanings, "to be hot" is the original meaning.It can mean a day of 24 hours, and Era, a period of time, a Chronicles etc. etc. So since intelligent people understand the universe was not created in 6 Literal days and is 13.7 some odd billion years old, we need to look at these as Periods of Time between Gods visual interpretation to us about how HE SAW Creation, it is not our interpretation after all, but His !!

The more we learn, the more the bible is proved to be correct. The WMP/NASA project mapped out the universe using microwaves and they saw Inflation, followed by what ? 400 Million years of Darkness before any Stars came into existence.........Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Void means empty space, or nothingness. And there was Darkness on the face of the Deep. God was 100 percent correct. The Evening came before the Morning (Stars/Yom/Day/to be hot). God says a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day unto him. In other words God is not subject to the restraints of time, but created it for us, thus he He has no beginning nor ending.

Now we need to just KINDA see his Periods of Time. 1. From the time God gave the command until the Earth and Sun came into existence was from 13.7 Billion years ago until 4.5 billion years BC so the first day was roughly 9.2 Billion years. By reading Genesis we can get what came into being on what days. 2. From earths creation until the grasses and trees came forth was 4.5 to 900 million years BC or basically 3.6 Billion years so that was the length of the 2nd Day. etc.etc. etc. by the 5th Day which started around 550 Billion years BC, the Sea Creatures came forth, (just as the bible describes the Sea Animals came before the land animals)until like 250-300 Million BC when the Land animals started being created and that last day, the SIXTH DAY lasted from 250--300 million years BC until 4000 BC when man as created (6000 years ago), then the Seventh Day started, the day of Gods Rest.

For anyone that wants to argue...But, but, but man has been proven to be around more than 6000 years, I say really ? Mans written history is basically 6000 years old, man did not just "suddenly" become intelligent. ANY ANIMAL in mans Likeness, before God imparted us with HIS Spirit or created us in His IMAGE was nothing but an Animal, and how long that Animal was around has ZERO to do with the Man that was Created in Gods Image at the 4000 BC point in time.

 

[Tattooed Theist]

Or maybe you are just not grasping God's EXPLANATION. Hebrew is a very limited language, with like 4000 words at the time, compared with 500,000 English words today. The word YOM used for Day has like 50 meanings, "to be hot" is the original meaning.It can mean a day of 24 hours, and Era, a period of time, a Chronicles etc. etc. So since intelligent people understand the universe was not created in 6 Literal days and is 13.7 some odd billion years old, we need to look at these as Periods of Time between Gods visual interpretation to us about how HE SAW Creation, it is not our interpretation after all, but His !!

:nono:
I can do without the attitude. I'm asking for conversation of people's opinions.
I don't recall posting my own understanding or conclusion in any complete or even partial form.
Please think before projecting your rude assumptions on un provoking people.

The more we learn, the more the bible is proved to be correct. The WMP/NASA project mapped out the universe using microwaves and they saw Inflation, followed by what ? 400 Million years of Darkness before any Stars came into existence.........Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Void means empty space, or nothingness. And there was Darkness on the face of the Deep. God was 100 percent correct. The Evening came before the Morning (Stars/Yom/Day/to be hot). God says a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day unto him. In other words God is not subject to the restraints of time, but created it for us, thus he He has no beginning nor ending.

Now we need to just KINDA see his Periods of Time. 1. From the time God gave the command until the Earth and Sun came into existence was from 13.7 Billion years ago until 4.5 billion years BC so the first day was roughly 9.2 Billion years. By reading Genesis we can get what came into being on what days. 2. From earths creation until the grasses and trees came forth was 4.5 to 900 million years BC or basically 3.6 Billion years so that was the length of the 2nd Day. etc.etc. etc. by the 5th Day which started around 550 Billion years BC, the Sea Creatures came forth, (just as the bible describes the Sea Animals came before the land animals)until like 250-300 Million BC when the Land animals started being created and that last day, the SIXTH DAY lasted from 250--300 million years BC until 4000 BC when man as created (6000 years ago), then the Seventh Day started, the day of Gods Rest.

For anyone that wants to argue...But, but, but man has been proven to be around more than 6000 years, I say really ? Mans written history is basically 6000 years old, man did not just "suddenly" become intelligent. ANY ANIMAL in mans Likeness, before God imparted us with HIS Spirit or created us in His IMAGE was nothing but an Animal, and how long that Animal was around has ZERO to do with the Man that was Created in Gods Image at the 4000 BC point in time.

Thank you for your input.

 

[6days]

Or maybe you are just not grasping God's EXPLANATION. Hebrew is a very limited language, with like 4000 words at the time, compared with 500,000 English words today. The word YOM used for Day has like 50 meanings, "to be hot" is the original meaning.It can mean a day of 24 hours, and Era, a period of time.....So since intelligent people understand

Uh..... intelligent people also understand words within context.
Lets see how you do .....
In my fathers DAY, people travelled 3 DAYS, during the DAY to get to get to the city.
3 different meanings... Is it confusing?
BTW... Yom in Hebrew and DAY in English have a similar variety of meanings but always understood by context.

2nd test for you.
Genesis 2 "Then God blessed the seventh DAY and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the DAY that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"
There you have 2 different meanings of the word DAY.
Is it difficult?

 

[6days]

Yes of course, this I'm aware of. Although it didn't answer my question.
I'm curious as to your personal opinion and why.

I'm interested in hearing people's unique views on the subject.

If a real Adam and real sin are not the cause of pain, suffering and death in our world then the gospel is destroyed and the purpose of Christ's death becomes meaningless.