ECT Fundamental question: how can the one David referred to be his son?

[Interplanner]

Trying to discuss anything with them is to fall through the looking glass...Bible words can mean anything they want them to mean, or nothing at all. You cite something literal? Pfft, they disregard it. But when THEY want to be literal, you're an idiot for disagreeing. It lets them rule a conversation they'd otherwise choke on.

That's why IP and many others hate literalism.

No, you have missed the Christocentricity of it. The reason the 'raised fallen tent of David' is fulfilled in Acts 15 is because it is true in Christ, just as Israel becoming a light to the nations was to be true in Christ in Acts 13:47, quoting Is. 49.

In order for me to think it meant 'anything' I would have to be saying that the 'raised fallen tent of David' is the Eiffel Tower, or a green banana. I'm not. I'm specifically saying it is the reality in Christ that James said was there, upon which he was agreeing with Paul in things Paul expressed in Rom 16: that the faith of the Gentiles was an inevitable thing that would happen in Christ, according to the prophets.

When Paul calls Christ the temple, he is not saying it is a Walmart or a limousine or any other irrational thing that you imagine. He is saying that what the OT was talking about is now the collective believers in Christ, no matter where they meet or how the dress, etc. That it was true in Christ.

It is very suspicious that you have no concept of the truth 'in Christ.' 2 Cor 3:14.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That's why IP and many others hate literalism.

Indeed, their's is just a sophisticated method of "Hath God Said?"
Nothing new, just like in the Garden.

 

[dodge]

steko;5009110]Correct!
The point in all my questioning of all of this is to get you to admit that when we find the word 'church' in Scripture, it is not always referring to the same 'assembly'.
Thank you for finally conceding the point.

I don't know what translation you are using but in the KJV the context is a of a MOB and government facility.

Therefore, when Stephen mentions 'the church/assembly/ekkliesia' in the wilderness, he is speaking about the 'qahal/assembly' of the 'edah/congregation' of the twelve tribes of Israel, which is not the BOC, though both are called 'church' in different contexts.

When Stephan was passing from life into physical death he saw Jesus I believe context is clear that he was entering and had been in the B.O.C.

Could it be that there are other instances in Scripture where the word 'church' is referring to an assembly other than the BOC?

Context determines meaning.

:chuckle: Did you really think that I believed that those three verses in Acts 19 were referring to the BOC?

I really wasn't sure

Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church[ekklesia] in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Jesus went before the church in the wilderness I don't see how anyone could not consider that the B.O.C., and eventually Jesus descended to preach to the prisoners that were held captive, Context is they were waiting for the crucifixion and are saved like everyone is saved which is through the blood of Jesus.

Exo_12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly[qahal] of the congregation[edah] of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Which was a type of Jesus !

 

[dodge]

You don't understand a thing. There was a church at that time. The Old Testament had prophecies for this specific time. God dealt exclusively with Israel. Salvation for the Gentiles was to come thru the nation of Israel. A good example is Phillip and the Eunuch. After Christ went to the cross and rose again on the third day, they were offered the Kingdom. They rejected God's offer once again. Then like in times of old, when God gave up the Gentiles and went exclusively to Israel, He gave up Israel for a time and went exclusively to the Gentiles. I don't know why God did it that way, nor do I care why He did it that way. I just know He did it and am thankful for His offer of salvation to us Gentiles. We are not Israel. We are not spiritual Israel nor His Kingdom Church which was prophesied and where the 3000 were added. Christ had a mission when He was here and He fulfilled it. And He was promptly rejected. God, because of Israel's unbelief, saved the remnant. That's the church that was added the 3000. And of Peter, James, John etc...The Apostle Paul was also saved thru this, but was later told as scripture bears out He became the Apostle to the Gentiles. And consequently I believe (although there is debate on this)that the other apostles were moved into the dispensation of grace. some feel they did, some feel they didn't. But they are still saved.

You do understand that when Jesus died physically on the cross He descended and preached to the ones held captive ? NO one is saved except through the blood of Jesus Christ. There was and is only one way to be saved and that is through faith in the finished work of Jesus.


All MAD does is distort the obvious to prop up a man made lie. Divide and split ! Scripture is not fractured into "gospels" "Israel and the B.O.C." everyone that is saved is in Christ Jesus or they are NOT saved. When Israel is restored they are going to become a part of the B.O.C. there will not be them and others. There will only be the B.O.C. when Israel is restored and grafted back in it will be as God intended for it to be ONE B.O.C. all others will be in hell.

 

[dodge]

Dodge,

It is almost impossible to have spiritual communication with literalists.

EXACTLY !

Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:13
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 

[drbrumley]

You do understand that when Jesus died physically on the cross He descended and preached to the ones held captive ? NO one is saved except through the blood of Jesus Christ. There was and is only one way to be saved and that is through faith in the finished work of Jesus..

:up:

All MAD does is distort the obvious to prop up a man made lie. Divide and split ! Scripture is not fractured into "gospels" "Israel and the B.O.C." everyone that is saved is in Christ Jesus or they are NOT saved..

Agreed. I just say what the scriptures say, Sorry you have issues with it. Your grandstanding with charges of distortions, lies, divides and splits etc notwithstanding!

When Israel is restored they are going to become a part of the B.O.C. there will not be them and others..

If you say so. I will take the bible's word for it over yours anyday. You have yet to answer why the 12 apostles are over the 12 tribes and why Paul is not part of that or even be a judge over Gentiles.

There will only be the B.O.C. when Israel is restored and grafted back in it will be as God intended for it to be ONE B.O.C. all others will be in hell.

Again, I will take the bible's word for it over yours anyday.

 

[Tambora]

Trying to discuss anything with them is to fall through the looking glass...Bible words can mean anything they want them to mean, or nothing at all. You cite something literal? Pfft, they disregard it. But when THEY want to be literal, you're an idiot for disagreeing. It lets them rule a conversation they'd otherwise choke on.

That's why IP and many others hate literalism.

Indeed, their's is just a sophisticated method of "Hath God Said?"
Nothing new, just like in the Garden.

Yep.
Yep.

 

[dodge]

drbrumley;5009197]:up:

Agreed. I just say what the scriptures say, Sorry you have issues with it. Your grandstanding with charges of distortions, lies, divides and splits etc notwithstanding!

Nah, you nor any other MADist has proven a case for MAD from scripture. Word games , smoke and mirrors, changing context of the meaning of words, and an attitude of it says what I say it says with not keeping context of words and scripture is all MAD offers.

If you say so. I will take the bible's word for it over yours anyday. You have yet to answer why the 12 apostles are over the 12 tribes and why Paul is not part of that or even be a judge over Gentiles.

When MADIST are shown that Paul preached repentance in Acts 20:21 it mysteriously doesn't mean biblical repentance anymore. MAD forces separation and distinction between things that exposes MAD as UN-biblical and a lie.

Again, I will take the bible's word for it over yours anyday.

It is what scripture teaches minus the MAD distortions, confusion, and spiritual blindness.

 

[drbrumley]

Nah, you nor any other MADist has proven a case for MAD from scripture. Word games , smoke and mirrors, changing context of the meaning of words, and an attitude of it says what I say it says with not keeping context of words and scripture is all MAD offers.

Right back at you...

When MADIST are shown that Paul preached repentance in Acts 20:21 it mysteriously doesn't mean biblical repentance anymore. MAD forces separation and distinction between things that exposes MAD as UN-biblical and a lie.

Um repentance means repentance...try a new game...

It is what scripture teaches minus the MAD distortions, confusion, and spiritual blindness.

It is what scripture teaches minus the Covenant Theology distortions, confusion, and spiritual blindness.

 

[drbrumley]

You have yet to answer why the 12 apostles are over the 12 tribes and why Paul is not part of that or even be a judge over Gentiles.

 

[dodge]

drbrumley;5009208]Right back at you...

Um repentance means repentance...try a new game...

Got ya ! World does not mean world ( John 3:16 ) , whosoever does not mean whosoever ( John 3:16 ) and repentance does not mean repentance (Acts 20:21 ). No thanks !

The game is the division and distortion of scripture that MAD tries to pass of as valid and truthful when it is neither.

It is what scripture teaches minus the MADness distortions, confusion, , and spiritual blindness.
and spiritual blindness.

The above perfectly describes MAD or a better description is M-men A-accepting D-deception.

 

[drbrumley]

Got ya ! World does not mean world ( John 3:16 ) , whosoever does not mean whosoever ( John 3:16 ) and repentance Acts 20:21 does not mean repentance (Acts 20:21 ). No thanks !

The game is the division and distortion of scripture that MAD tries to pass of as valid and truthful when it is neither.




The above perfectly describes MAD or a better description is M-men A-accepting D-deception.

You have yet to answer why the 12 apostles are over the 12 tribes and why Paul is not part of that or even be a judge over Gentiles.

 

[dodge]

You have yet to answer why the 12 apostles are over the 12 tribes and why Paul is not part of that or even be a judge over Gentiles.

I am not playing into your deception ! Carry on.

My focus is Jesus NOT Paul and Darby.

 

[drbrumley]

Let's see, God so loved the WORLD.....world, what can that possibly mean? :idea: As of today, that's 7.5 billion people. Along with the billions before that.....

So John 3:16 means, God so loved the 7.5 billion in it, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever (7.5 billion)believes upon Him, shall have everlasting life

So try again.....or you just arguing just to argue?

 

[drbrumley]

I am not playing into your deception ! Carry on.

My focus is Jesus NOT Paul and Darby.

You see dear readers...this is the problem.....the scriptures clearly say something, and Dodge here with many of his cohorts don't give a rip about it.

 

[dodge]

You see dear readers...this is the problem.....the scriptures clearly say something, and Dodge here with many of his cohorts don't give a rip about it.

You have been given more than enough scripture to know MAD is a lie ! All you do is twist, distort,and destroy context of said scripture.

You see readers all you have to do is follow MAD right into spiritual blindness , removing CONTEXT from scripture, ignore Jesus' teachings , and follow MADist right into Darby's errors and theirs.

 

[drbrumley]

You have been given more than enough scripture to know MAD is a lie ! All you do is twist, distort,and destroy context of said scripture.

You see readers all you have to do is follow MAD right into spiritual blindness , removing CONTEXT from scripture, ignore Jesus' teachings , and follow MADist right into Darby's errors and theirs.

Yet you gave not one example....Imagine that!!!

 

[Interplanner]

Stick to one text at a time to keep from talking past each other.

 

[drbrumley]

Stick to one text at a time to keep from talking past each other.

Good advice...He wanted John 3:16 addressed, I did, and he ignores it.

 

[dodge]

Yet you gave not one example....Imagine that!!!

Sure I did you ignored everyone to stay in a lie ! Your loss not mine.