Free Will

God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Truster said:
You will hear the words, "depart from me, I never, ever knew you"....
Click to expand...

You have been taught wrong about that scripture.

Those he said that to might have cast out demons and healed in the name of Jesus, but they failed to stop doing evil all the other times.

They never repented of their sins.

Jesus says depart from me you evil doers because they actually kept doing evil, they kept doing things they should have repented of doing.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
Truster said:
I was pointing out the reason for your blindness to the truth.
Click to expand...
I'm waiting for you to actually show me how my reasoning is wrong, how what I said is wrong, how I'm blind to the truth. I'm willing to be proved wrong. How about you? God is the God of reason.

*“Come now, and let us reason together,”Says the Lord,“Though your sins are like scarlet,They shall be as white as snow;Though they are red like crimson,They shall be as wool. - Isaiah 1:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah1:18&version=NKJV

So, Truster, come and let us reason together. Let's discuss.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
Truster said:
Neither angels nor man were given free will. Most of the angels were created immutable and didn't fall, whereas others were created mutable and so they fell. Those are not acts of free will they were the effects of immutability/mutability.

Adam and Eve were mutable and so at the first opportunity they fell. Both the fall of the angels and of Adam and Eve fell within the eternal decree and purpose.

Without the fall, there would have been no need for salvation and no need for a Saviour.
Click to expand...

Exactly how did Satan and the other rebellious angels rebel against God if they did not have free will ?

Your argument carries no weight and is not reality ! Based on your assumption ( not scriptural ) Satan and the other rebellious angels would have never revolted against God as they did without their will !
 
T

Truster

New member
“To say that Elohim is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose,or resist His will..."

If man has free will, then man can resist or thwart the power of the Almighty. Free will needs to be augmented with power to fulfil the will. Only the Eternal Almighty possesses that power.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
Truster said:
“To say that Elohim is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose,or resist His will..."

If man has free will, then man can resist or thwart the power of the Almighty. Free will needs to be augmented with power to fulfil the will. Only the Eternal Almighty possesses that power.
Click to expand...

I know you mean well, but you don't bring glory to God, and you make Him seem weak in comparison when you render God incapable of reacting to situations. God is a capable God. He can react to man's resistance of Him.

If man has free will, then man can love God freely, or man can hate God freely.

If man does NOT have free will, then man cannot love God, because he does not have the option to hate Him. We would be organic robots just following instructions, emotions would mean nothing at all, and we would not be able to form a relationship with our creator.

Say a man loves a woman, and builds her a home and puts her in it, and then removes all the doors and windows on the outside of the house, and then tells her to stay with him, so that she will love him. What is the woman's response? She will despise him. She will not love him, because she is being forced to stay with him. She has no choice. She will be unable to love him, and that house becomes a living Hell for her.

But what about a man who loves a woman, and builds her a house, and brings her to it, but says that if she wants to leave, there's the door? Now she is presented with a choice: this man loves her enough to say that if she wants to leave, he's not going to keep her there, but if she chooses to love him in return, he has provided her with a house to live in. she now has the option to either love him or hate him.

Which man do you think represents God, the one who forces people to do things, who does not give people the option to love or hate Him, or the man who lets the person choose to love Him? Which kind of "love" means more to God?
 
dodge

dodge

New member
Truster said:
“To say that Elohim is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose,or resist His will..."

If man has free will, then man can resist or thwart the power of the Almighty. Free will needs to be augmented with power to fulfil the will. Only the Eternal Almighty possesses that power.
Click to expand...

God did not create robots when HE created mankind. Adam was given a command to NOT eat of a certain tree;however, Adam expressed His own will and disobeyed God, and sadly you ignore the obvious.

Have you ever considered how pointless it would have been for God to command Adam to not do a thing if God had foreordained that man to do the very thing He told Him not to do ? In essence if God did tell the man to not do a thing He was going to make Him do anyways that would make God nothing short of being a liar, and I know God cannot lie.
 
T

Truster

New member
JudgeRightly said:
I know you mean well, but you don't bring glory to God, and you make Him seem weak in comparison when you render God incapable of reacting to situations. God is a capable God. He can react to man's resistance of Him.

If man has free will, then man can love God freely, or man can hate God freely.

If man does NOT have free will, then man cannot love God, because he does not have the option to hate Him. We would be organic robots just following instructions, emotions would mean nothing at all, and we would not be able to form a relationship with our creator.

Say a man loves a woman, and builds her a home and puts her in it, and then removes all the doors and windows on the outside of the house, and then tells her to stay with him, so that she will love him. What is the woman's response? She will despise him. She will not love him, because she is being forced to stay with him. She has no choice. She will be unable to love him, and that house becomes a living Hell for her.

But what about a man who loves a woman, and builds her a house, and brings her to it, but says that if she wants to leave, there's the door? Now she is presented with a choice: this man loves her enough to say that if she wants to leave, he's not going to keep her there, but if she chooses to love him in return, he has provided her with a house to live in. she now has the option to either love him or hate him.

Which man do you think represents God, the one who forces people to do things, who does not give people the option to love or hate Him, or the man who lets the person choose to love Him? Which kind of "love" means more to God?
Click to expand...

The Almighty does not react He acts according to His will and His good pleasure.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
dodge said:
God did not create robots when HE created mankind. Adam was given a command to NOT eat of a certain tree;however, Adam expressed His own will and disobeyed God, and sadly you ignore the obvious.

Have you ever considered how pointless it would have been for God to command Adam to not do a thing if God had foreordained that man to do the very thing He told Him not to do ? In essence if God did tell the man to not do a thing He was going to make Him do anyways that would make God nothing short of being a liar, and I know God cannot lie.
Click to expand...

If you were Adam would you have ignored Eve and obeyed God?
 
T

Truster

New member
dodge said:
God did not create robots when HE created mankind. Adam was given a command to NOT eat of a certain tree;however, Adam expressed His own will and disobeyed God, and sadly you ignore the obvious.

Have you ever considered how pointless it would have been for God to command Adam to not do a thing if God had foreordained that man to do the very thing He told Him not to do ? In essence if God did tell the man to not do a thing He was going to make Him do anyways that would make God nothing short of being a liar, and I know God cannot lie.
Click to expand...

Adam reacted to what Eve had done. Adam saw the immediate effect that rebellion had on her and Adam became a sinner for his bride, out of love. The Last Adam became sin for His bride, out of love. Selah.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
The carnal man has invented the lie, that man has a freewill. Its a lie because man by nature cant please God Rom 8:8

8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

And until one is born anew, they are in the realm of the flesh !

So does the natural man in the flesh have a freewill to please God ?
Click to expand...


Nope!
 
T

Truster

New member
JudgeRightly said:
So is God incapable of reacting to a change in circumstance?
Click to expand...

There is not and cannot be any change to His decreed will. He cannot be taken by surprise and there is no possibility of anything, ever, being done outside of His will. Focus on omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscience. All power, everywhere and all knowing. That is a fair description of Whom I have been called to serve.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top