Foundation.

[Spockrates]

Foundation.

Fear and hate are emotions. What else would you like me to consider them being? I am interested in what you think about it.

Sorry for the delay in replying. I think that I don't know, but I know that I do wonder, that wonder is the feeling of a purser of truth, and the pursuit of truth begins with wonder.

What I wonder is how fear can give me courage. For what I seem to lack is the courage to do what is right. Temptation approaches me, beckoning me to lie with her. I fear her, or rather the thought of not embracing her. She desires my embrace and I hers. The thought of doing without her strikes fear in my heart. I don't know how I can survive without her! What I need is the courage to stay away.

Yet you say it's not courage I need, but more fear. A greater, more terrifying fear of what God will do to me, than what avoiding temptation will do to me.

Then I hear the words spoke through Joshua:

Joshua 1:7-9 “"Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”"

So I wonder my friend if what you say is true, or if the opposite be true, and what I need is not to fear God, but to have confidence in Him.


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[Tambora]

I could go into detail and bring out light from these scriptures, but I despise the spirit by which you enquire. It's the same spirit that worked in scribes and pharisees when they questioned Messiah. He didn't bother giving them an answer either...

I know why you won't answer, and it has nothing to do with my spirit. It is because you got yourself caught in a contradiction, and you know answering the question will expose your contradiction of the scriptural meaning of "repent".
Are you here for truth, or are you here just to do your amateur analysis of internet personalities?
(((Pssst ..... You can do both, you know. One doesn't have to exclude the other.)))


Think about the truth of it, and not your personal "feelings".
GOD repented, several times.
So, GOD converted several times?

 

[God's Truth]

What the eyes don't see the heart can't grieve over.

Sounds like you are promoting blindness.

 

[Truster]

I know why you won't answer, and it has nothing to do with my spirit. It is because you got yourself caught in a contradiction, and you know answering the question will expose your contradiction of the scriptural meaning of "repent".
Are you here for truth, or are you here just to do your amateur analysis of internet personalities?
(((Pssst ..... You can do both, you know. One doesn't have to exclude the other.)))


Think about the truth of it, and not your personal "feelings".
GOD repented, several times.
So, GOD converted several times?

Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".


"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.


Repentance is a spiritual endowment. It is one of the gifts that heirs receive under the terms of the “will” of the Eternal Almighty. Repentance and by default the ability to repent is not inherent in man. It cannot be apprehended by learning nor by religious experience. The gift of repentance is received upon regeneration. It is not of the soul and therefore not an emotion, although it does generate reverent sorrow.
Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. There is no room for doubt in that first, penetrating beam of spiritual light, and the repentant sinner knows things and can see things clearly for the very first time. Repentance and trust are spiritual gifts that are permanently entwined, so that one both confirms and strengthens the other. The gift of trust and repentance received at one and the same time, is the most exhilarating experience and a man will always remember where he was and when the eyes of his understanding were first opened. He is suddenly a new man and he knows for an absolute fact he will never be the same again. In the weeks months and years following there will be more times of repentance. The experience does not diminish and can only be described as extreme blessing. You begin to realise, on each and every occasion, you have been granted repentance that you have changed inside and have a certain knowledge you’ll never be the same again. The inner man is being renewed day, by day. I used to describe the experience like climbing a mountain. The struggle to reach what seems like the top only to discover another top. You reach a plateau of rest and pleasant walking where you enjoy the views, before taking on, or rather, being taken to new heights. Just as climbing is exhausting in the physical sense repentance is spiritually exhausting, because each time a part of the “old self” dies before being replaced with another mentality.

In his natural, fallen state, man has a viewpoint that is clouded by and with sin. In his regenerate state all things are become new and the eyes of the understanding or the mind are part of that renewal. Repentance is “another mentality”. There was an old, natural mentality, that we inherit from Adam and there is the new mentality that we inherit from the Last Adam and our Eternal Saviour.
This lines up with “But we have the mind of Messiah”. 1 Corinthians 2:16 KJV 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Romans 12:2
The latter verse confirms that repentance once received is ongoing. Justification is an event that happens once, is complete, cannot be added to and is final, eternal and blessed. Amen. Repentance is the power behind sanctification and we are always being sanctified. Justification is permanent. Sanctification is by degree and therefore repentance, once received, is ongoing.
A man cannot pray for repentance, but a repentant man will pray in spirit. A man does not repent to be re-born again from above. A man repents, because he has been born again from above.
In the first creation Elohim said, “let there be Light and Light became”. In the new creation Elohim says, “Let there be Light and the man is inwardly enlightened” not from power within, but from Almighty Power without, enlightening the inner man.


Repentance is finding the strait gate. Passing through the gate is repentance being applied to the Sovereignty of Elohim. Walking the narrow way is a life of repentance in which the comforts and enjoyments of what the world has to offer are slowly, but surely recognised for their sinfulness and discarded. You are actually called "narrow minded" and there is no greater blessing and amen.

Natural man will despise this truth, but the renewed man will embrace it, because he’ll recognise the experience. When I was converted I wanted everybody I knew and those I didn’t know. To have what I have, to know what I know, to love how I love and to fellowship in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with me. It was not the case and as my signature states, “I have since been further confirmed in this truth, because it was revealed to me who never sought it and never expected it and is withheld from thousands who are working hard to get it”.

 

[Spockrates]

Foundation.

Repentance does not mean sorry. Repentance does generate heart felt sorrow, but sorrow is not what repentance is. Sorrow is on two differing levels. Sorrow of the world which is spoken at the drop of a hat. It has no depth, is almost immediately forgotten and the matter for what "sorry" was expressed is repeated time and again.

Then we have reverent sorrow that is from the heart(will). It is sincere and makes sure the matter is not repeated. This sorrow flows from repentance, but as I said, it is the effect or fruit of repentance. This true sorrow also generates further repentance.
The betrayal being repeated proves that it was sorrow, as the world knows sorrow, and not the fruit of repentance."By their fruit ye shall know them".

"For reverent sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". 2 Corinthians 7:10

This verse condemns insincere sorrow. So everytime someone says sorry to you as you go through your day. They are killing themselves, because worldly sorrow worketh death.

A more modern translation uses more familiar words to me:

2 Corinthians 7:10 "Godly sorrow causes repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow causes death."

I'm thinking you're right. Godly sorrow is a cause of repentance, and it's logical to me that the thing caused cannot be the same as that which causes it. For an effect is never the same as its cause. So the effect we call repentance cannot possibly be the same as its cause, which we call godly sorrow.

Since repentance isn't godly sorrow, what then is it?


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[Truster]

Elohim repented is a term used by the Holy Spirit to accommodate the limited capacity of man. Elohim is said to have a face and an arm and we know for a fact Elohim is Spirit and not matter. These devices make it easier to communicate ideas to man, but taking them literally as you have is plain dumb in the light of scripture. I AM YAH VEH I CHANGE NOT and you suggest He changes His mind? Who is this mind changing wimp you worship? It is certainly not the Eternal Almighty.

 

[Truster]

A more modern translation uses more familiar words to me:

2 Corinthians 7:10 "Godly sorrow causes repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow causes death."

I'm thinking you're right. Godly sorrow is a cause of repentance, and it's logical to me that the thing caused cannot be the same as that which causes it. For an effect is never the same as its cause. So the effect we call repentance cannot possibly be the same as its cause, which we call godly sorrow.

Since repentance isn't godly sorrow, what then is it?


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Read post 144 they are two separate posts I used to answer your questions.

 

[Tambora]

Repentance does not mean sorry.

Save it. I didn't say it did.


GOD repented several times.
GOD converted several times?

Hearken.

Proverbs 12:15 KJV
(15) The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

 

[God's Truth]

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Thank you for replying back.

I think that I don't know, but I know that I do wonder, that wonder is the feeling of a purser of truth, and the pursuit of truth begins with wonder.

That is right, we have to desire to know the Truth.

What I wonder is how fear can give me courage.

Well, I didn’t say fear would give you courage. I said fear in God can help you get sin out of your life. If a person really does fear God, they will give up the sins that they are doing; they will see the delight in the fear of God when they see how they stopped their sins.

For what I seem to lack is the courage to do what is right. Temptation approaches me, beckoning me to lie with her. I fear her, or rather the thought of not embracing her. She desires my embrace and I hers. The thought of doing without her strikes fear in my heart. I don't know how I can survive without her! What I need is the courage to stay away.

You have to fear God more than you fear giving up that which is against God.
You have to trust God by doing what He says and He says you will be blessed by it. You will not know how great the blessing is until you actually start doing what He says. God sys to hate what is evil. Let’s say right now that you love what is evil. You will have to obey God and say you hate it, until you actually do hate it. Learn to hate everything about it. Once you do what God says by hating evil, you will be blessed with more understanding.

Yet you say it's not courage I need, but more fear. A greater, more terrifying fear of what God will do to me, than what avoiding temptation will do to me.

Then I hear the words spoke through Joshua:

Joshua 1:7-9 “"Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”"

The Bible does not contradict. There are many scriptures that say to fear God. You just do not understand what is being said in that scripture. The people were afraid because Moses was dead and Joshua was reassuring them that they would be okay.

So I wonder my friend if what you say is true, or if the opposite be true, and what I need is not to fear God, but to have confidence in Him.

What I say is true because it is exactly what the Bible says. You can find out if what the Bible says is true. Jesus explains to us that if someone does not know if what he says is true, then all they have to do is to do what he says then they will know. Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey him. You will have to believe what He says and not lean to the left or to the right, and do not add or take away. See, you already want to change the words about fearing God to having confidence in Him. Just believe what is written and do what He says, and you will be blessed beyond what you have ever imagined.

 

[Spockrates]

Foundation.

Repentance is a spiritual endowment. It is one of the gifts that heirs receive under the terms of the “will” of the Eternal Almighty. ...

Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ...

Repentance and trust are spiritual gifts that are permanently entwined, so that one both confirms and strengthens the other. ..€.

Are you saying repentance is wisdom?


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[Truster]

Are you saying repentance is wisdom?


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No.

 

[Tambora]

Elohim repented is a term used by the Holy Spirit to accommodate the limited capacity of man.

It's the term used in scripture because that is what happened.

Who is this mind changing wimp you worship? It is certainly not the Eternal Almighty.

Yes it is.
You can call Him a wimp if you wish; won't change the fact that GOD repented several times.


Jonah 3:10 KJV
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jeremiah 18:10 KJV
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.



GOD repented several times.
GOD converted several times?????
opcorn:


Here, let me help you out.

The answer is "no", GOD did not convert several times.
GOD repented several times.


​

You're welcome.

 

[God's Truth]

Yet you say it's not courage I need, but more fear.

Again, I did not say you do not need courage. You definitely need fear of God.

A greater, more terrifying fear of what God will do to me, than what avoiding temptation will do to me.

Then I hear the words spoke through Joshua:

Joshua 1:7-9 “"Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”"

So I wonder my friend if what you say is true, or if the opposite be true, and what I need is not to fear God, but to have confidence in Him.

You are badly mistaken if you think I say things that the Bible doesn't say.
You misunderstand what Joshua was saying.
I have scriptures that I want to post for you so that you will see that I say what the Bible says.
We have to have fear and trembling to be saved.
]2 Corinthians 7:17 And his affection for you is all the greater when he remembers that you were all obedient, receiving him with fear and trembling. 1 Peter 2:17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. Acts 10:35 but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. Acts 13:26 “Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 2 Corinthians 5:11 [ The Ministry of Reconciliation ] Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. Philippians 2:12 [ Shining as Stars ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Luke 1
for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
51 He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 23:40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? Acts 5:11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events. Acts 10:2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. Romans 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. 1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.
Revelation 14:7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” Revelation 15:4 Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
Revelation 19:5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, both small and great!” Isaiah 11:3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.

 

[Spockrates]

Thank you for replying back.


That is right, we have to desire to know the Truth.


Well, I didn’t say fear would give you courage. I said fear in God can help you get sin out of your life. If a person really does fear God, they will give up the sins that they are doing; they will see the delight in the fear of God when they see how they stopped their sins.


You have to fear God more than you fear giving up that which is against God.
You have to trust God by doing what He says and He says you will be blessed by it. You will not know how great the blessing is until you actually start doing what He says. God sys to hate what is evil. Let’s say right now that you love what is evil. You will have to obey God and say you hate it, until you actually do hate it. Learn to hate everything about it. Once you do what God says by hating evil, you will be blessed with more understanding.


The Bible does not contradict. There are many scriptures that say to fear God. You just do not understand what is being said in that scripture. The people were afraid because Moses was dead and Joshua was reassuring them that they would be okay.


What I say is true because it is exactly what the Bible says. You can find out if what the Bible says is true. Jesus explains to us that if someone does not know if what he says is true, then all they have to do is to do what he says then they will know. Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey him. You will have to believe what He says and not lean to the left or to the right, and do not add or take away. See, you already want to change the words about fearing God to having confidence in Him. Just believe what is written and do what He says, and you will be blessed beyond what you have ever imagined.

Thank you for your frank reply. Yes, I can see what you say is true, for the Bible also tells me:

Psalm 111:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... ."

So yes, wisdom begins with fear, but does it end there?


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[Truster]

It's the term used in scripture because that is what happened.

Yes it is.
You can call Him a wimp if you wish; won't change the fact that GOD repented several times.


Jonah 3:10 KJV
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jeremiah 18:10 KJV
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.



GOD repented several times.
GOD converted several times?????
opcorn:


Here, let me help you out.

The answer is "no", GOD did not convert several times.
GOD repented several times.


​

You're welcome.

There is none so blind who think they can see.

 

[God's Truth]

Thank you for your frank reply. Yes, I can see what you say is true, for the Bible also tells me:

Psalm 111:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... ."

So yes, wisdom begins with fear, but does it end there?


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Fearing God will help you not to sin.

You will know Jesus if you obey and you will have love as you have never known before.

 

[Spockrates]

Foundation.

Fearing God will help you not to sin.

You will know Jesus if you obey and you will have love as you have never known before.

Are you saying fear is the beginning of wisdom and love is its end?

EDIT: Yes, I think this must be your meaning, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.



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[Tambora]

There is none so blind who think they can see.

Then open your eyes and let not your heart be hardened.


Jonah 3:10 KJV
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Jeremiah 18:10 KJV
(10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

 

[Spockrates]

No.

Sorry for being slow to comprehend. It seems to me these words of yours define godly wisdom:

"Repentance is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ..."

For when I replace the word repentance with the word wisdom, it sounds wise to me!

"[Godly wisdom] is a spiritual change in which the eyes of the understanding are opened and a vision of the attributes of Deity are clearly perceived for the first time. ..."

But please tell me why you disagree. How do you define godly wisdom?


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[meshak]

Are you saying fear is the beginning of wisdom and love is its end?

EDIT: Yes, I think this must be your meaning, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.



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May I say something here?