Foundation.

[God's Truth]

Woe friend.

I have indeed done all those things, all thanks be to our Lord and GOD; and simply wanted your opinion on if one has any part in receiving initial faith in GOD.

Thank you in advance.

peace sincerely

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Why woe? Did you not ask me if we had to do anything?

Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

 

[Truster]

You have a false gospel!

To enter into Christ's rest, doesn't mean that we do nothing, but that we rest from the works of our flesh, then by doing so, our hearts are at peace being cleansed through Christ by the spirit.

Hebrews 4

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

And you're not listening to the apostle Paul whom you follow.

Romans 8

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God
And further down the chapter

[b For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.[/b]

And Peter

1 Peter 4

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:*But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.*If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy*are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.*But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or*as*a thief, or*as*an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.*Yet if*any man suffer*as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.*[/b] For the time*is come*that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if*it*first*begin*at us, what shall the end*be*of them that obey not the gospel of God?*And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls*to him*in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.[/b]

And we will all be judged on what we do good and bad!

2 Corinthians 5

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

There is no such thing as a do nothing gospel, we are to turn from sin, and deny ourselves, turn from living by the will of our flesh and live by the will of God, and through faith and through Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit will give us the power to overcome.

QUOTE.
There is no such thing as a do nothing gospel, we are to turn from sin, and deny ourselves, turn from living by the will of our flesh and live by the will of God, and through faith and through Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit will give us the power to overcome.
.....................................................................................

Everything necessary for salvation was performed and completed in Messiah. Everything necessary is applied to the sinner by the Holy Spirit in the application of redemption. Man is passive in conversion, regeneration, repentance and man doesn't have a clue about the fact he has been justified. Man still doesn't do anything, but rather, trust is exercised in him and by him. A new principle is at work in the renewed man and by that very trust he knows and understands what has happened.

To the praise of the glory of His grace, without any help from man.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why would you claim God demands payment for His wonderful (free) Gift of Salvation and Eternal Life?

He freely offered Himself because He wanted us to have LIFE.

The wages of sin is death....even one sin....even that sin you refuse to call a sin...even those sins you don't admit to....even that sin of pride that haunts you so closely. He paid that price and you want to steal some of that glory?

"Well, it may have been a gift, but I paid dearly for it, myself."
"Look at me....I should get some credit. I'm the one who sacrificed so much.
"I'm the one who died daily by turning from the fleshly lusts."
"I obeyed better than them all."

Eph. 2:7KJV
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.​

It is a free gift in that He did it without regard for self; here, or in the hereafter; for the sake of all mankind.

It is not free in that we can freely abuse the gift as if it is of no worth. Truly it is the most valuable possession one could ever hope to have.

peace

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[glorydaz]

I knew you would come up with something else like that to try to distort what you did.

You said Christ was demoted when I called him an Apostle. You can't get out of that one.

As for you saying Jesus is something else to the Jews than to the Gentiles, is Christ divided?

I don't need to "get out" of anything. I'm not a Jew and I never was a Jew. The Jewish religion is not my religion.

And Christ is not divided, and your suggesting that would divide him is imbecilic. I assumed you were a Gentile, so your Apostle would be Paul. But I should have known better, since you think you are both Jew and Gentile.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't need to "get out" of anything. I'm not a Jew and I never was a Jew. The Jewish religion is not my religion.

And Christ is not divided, and your suggesting that would divide him is imbecilic. I assumed you were a Gentile, so your Apostle would be Paul. But I should have known better, since you think you are both Jew and Gentile.

You said Jesus was demoted when I said he was an Apostle. Would you like to change your profession on that?

 

[popsthebuilder]

David was a man after God's own heart. So, God has a heart, too.

Wow....It is all metaphor and has nothing very little to do with the actual flesh organ. It refers to the soul or spirit.

Genesis: 2. 7. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

peace

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[glorydaz]

It is a free gift in that He did it without regard for self; here, or in the hereafter; for the sake of all mankind.

It is not free in that we can freely abuse the gift as if it is of no worth. Truly it is the most valuable possession one could ever hope to have.

peace

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The gift can only be abused by those who reject it. Those who have received it know it's worth, and have full assurance of their salvation. It's why we have peace and rest in His love. The doubts and striving come from those who don't have what the true believers have.

Romans 8:35-39KJV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

 

[popsthebuilder]

Gotta love these labels. I'm a grace through faither, Miss Loony Tune.

Grace through faith....How beautiful. Could you please briefly describe it?

Thank you in advance.

peace

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[popsthebuilder]

Of course they were consumed....they were unbelievers. Of course they disobeyed, they were unbelievers. Those who believe have obeyed by believing. God's great command is that we believe and trust in Him.

Those who do believe are righteous BECAUSE the righteousness of Christ is accounted unto them.


This is so simple. So simple. Too simple, apparently.

The precious thing placed in your care must be accounted for too.

peace

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[marhig]

QUOTE.
There is no such thing as a do nothing gospel, we are to turn from sin, and deny ourselves, turn from living by the will of our flesh and live by the will of God, and through faith and through Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit will give us the power to overcome.
.....................................................................................

Everything necessary for salvation was performed and completed in Messiah. Everything necessary is applied to the sinner by the Holy Spirit in the application of redemption. Man is passive in conversion, regeneration, repentance and man doesn't have a clue about the fact he has been justified. Man still doesn't do anything, but rather, trust is exercised in him and by him. A new principle is at work in the renewed man and by that very trust he knows and understands what has happened.

To the praise of the glory of His grace, without any help from man.

Did you read those verses or just bypass them?

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Paul is saying here that we are to mortify the deeds of our bodies to live, but we do it through the spirit who helps us to overcome.

Jesus didn't say deny yourself for nothing, it's a doing action. And those who truly follow him obey him.

And we are clearly told that we are judged on what we do good or bad. We're not robots, God just doesn't come into our hearts and do it all for us, he teaches us right from wrong and through faith helps us to get through it. And Christ by the spirit strengthens us and we are strengthened to not only overcome our flesh, but also to bare what we have to bare in our lives.

We can't think that we can do as we please, wilfully sin and all is ok with God, no it won't be ok. We are to try our hardest to turn from doing wrong, yes we will sin, but we are to put our hands to stopping doing things that we know are wrong, and the Holy Spirit within should be making our consciences so strong the we can't do it!

I'm just off out so I won't be able to reply till later sorry.



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[popsthebuilder]

...doesn't change a thing. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

James 2

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

..........
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

(WOW.)

............
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Surely truth.

Faith is causal to all good things in the sight of GOD, and effectual towards good works for only the sight of GOD.

Wouldn't you agree friend?

peace

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[glorydaz]

Wow....It is all metaphor and has nothing very little to do with the actual flesh organ. It refers to the soul or spirit.

Genesis: 2. 7. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

peace

Of course. God has a soul, too. The soul of man is the "who" of man....his mind, his emotions, his very being.

Matthew 12:18KJV
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.​

Man is also a living soul....as in 15 souls were lost at sea. So you always have to read in context.

 

[marhig]

The gift can only be abused by those who reject it. Those who have received it know it's worth, and have full assurance of their salvation. It's why we have peace and rest in His love. The doubts and striving come from those who don't have what the true believers have.

Romans 8:35-39KJV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

That's true, but you can separate your self by living by the lusts of your flesh and loving this world and putting your life before God.

We can walk away from him, but he is always there for us.

Right I'm off out

 

[glorydaz]

You said Jesus was demoted when I said he was an Apostle. Would you like to change your profession on that?

No, I would still call it a demotion, since He is risen as Lord and God. If you called Him your servant, I would call that a demotion as well.

 

[glorydaz]

That's true, but you can separate your self by living by the lusts of your flesh and loving this world and putting your life before God.

We can walk away from him, but he is always there for us.

Right I'm off out

Right, we have been bought and paid for, SEALED by the Holy Spirit, and God is simply not able to keep us unto the day of Redemption. With that kind of faith, it's no wonder you have no assurance of salvation.

John 10:28-29KJV
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.​

 

[God's Truth]

Surely truth.

Faith is causal to all good things in the sight of GOD, and effectual? to good works for only the sight of GOD.

Wouldn't you agree friend?

peace

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Faith come from hearing, being taught, persuaded, and convinced about God.

That faith must not be dead, it must be alive.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

 

[God's Truth]

No, I would still call it a demotion, since He is risen as Lord and God. If you called Him your servant, I would call that a demotion as well.

Paul in Hebrews was speaking of the risen Lord when he called him an Apostle.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You can't see what is obvious. If it'a been a snake, it'a bit you.

Words that cut like two edged swords, when a simple explanation would suffice.

Can the two of you not be mended with one another? Surely the Bridegroom would expect peace in Their home, and coming from any close to Him, be it a servant, a bride, mule, empty vessel....

peace

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[Truster]

Did you read those verses or just bypass them?

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Paul is saying here that we are to mortify the deeds of our bodies to live, but we do it through the spirit who helps us to overcome.

Jesus didn't say deny yourself for nothing, it's a doing action. And those who truly follow him obey him.

And we are clearly told that we are judged on what we do good or bad. We're not robots, God just doesn't come into our hearts and do it all for us, he teaches us right from wrong and through faith helps us to get through it. And Christ by the spirit strengthens us and we are strengthened to not only overcome our flesh, but also to bare what we have to bare in our lives.

We can't think that we can do as we please, wilfully sin and all is ok with God, no it won't be ok. We are to try our hardest to turn from doing wrong, yes we will sin, but we are to put our hands to stopping doing things that we know are wrong, and the Holy Spirit within should be making our consciences so strong the we can't do it!

I'm just off out so I won't be able to reply till later sorry.



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"Deny self" is not what you think it means.

My description was the act of the beginning of the new life. You are arguing about living that new life. When Adam received the breath of life he became a living soul. When a sinner receives trust he becomes a new man and just as Adam relied and lived by breathing, the new man relies and lives by trust. Exercising trust is as simple as breathing. Man doesn't need to remember to breath as it is a recurring function. Man has no need to remember to trust, because it is the new function in the renewed man.

What you erroneously call faith. I correctly call trust.

 

[God's Truth]

Words that cut like two edged swords, when a simple explanation would suffice.

Can the two of you not be mended with one another? Surely the Bridegroom would expect peace in Their home, and coming from any close to Him, be it a servant, a bride, mule, empty vessel....

peace

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I have done nothing wrong. It is not good to compare me to glorydaze.