Forgiving others

[Judson50]

What verses do you cite?

It’s doctrine:

Regeneration Comes first, initiated by God:

“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.”
**Ezekiel‬ *36:26-27‬ *NASB‬‬


“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
**John‬ *1:12-13‬ *NASB‬‬

This new heart produces Conversion; which is the systematic doctrine of faith and repentance. They go hand in hand.

Faith
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
**Ephesians‬ *2:8‬ *NASB‬‬

Repentance
Cited above






Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Danoh]

Actually, the Lord said HIS words were "spirit" - lower case "s."

Big difference.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Danoh]

It’s doctrine:

Regeneration Comes first, initiated by God:

“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.”
**Ezekiel‬ *36:26-27‬ *NASB‬‬


“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
**John‬ *1:12-13‬ *NASB‬‬

This new heart produces Conversion; which is the systematic doctrine of faith and repentance. They go hand in hand.

Faith
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
**Ephesians‬ *2:8‬ *NASB‬‬

Repentance
Cited above






Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I was kind of picking up that you were talking Reformed ("spiritual Israel").

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

 

[God's Truth]

It’s doctrine:

It is disappointing that you are a Calvinist.

Regeneration Comes first, initiated by God:

Regeneration is when we receive the Holy Spirit, but no one receives the Holy Spirit before they believe.

“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.”
**Ezekiel‬ *36:26-27‬ *NASB‬‬

They don't get a new heart and spirit unless they repent of their sins. They refuse to repent of their sins that is why they die.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
**John‬ *1:12-13‬ *NASB‬‬

That means God chooses those He saves. Jesus tells us whom he saves. He says he saves those believe and obey.

This new heart produces Conversion; which is the systematic doctrine of faith and repentance. They go hand in hand.

Faith
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
**Ephesians‬ *2:8‬ *NASB‬‬

Repentance
Cited above

Not of yourselves means we do not clean ourselves the way the Jews used to with the purification/ceremonial works. Now Jesus cleans us only by our having faith that his blood cleans us of the sins you repent of. It means you do not have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals; it doesn't mean you don't have to obey anymore.

 

[Judson50]

It is disappointing that you are a Calvinist.


Regeneration is when we receive the Holy Spirit, but no one receives the Holy Spirit before they believe.



They don't get a new heart and spirit unless they repent of their sins. They refuse to repent of their sins that is why they die.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?


That means God chooses those He saves. Jesus tells us whom he saves. He says he saves those believe and obey.



Not of yourselves means we do not clean ourselves the way the Jews used to with the purification/ceremonial works. Now Jesus cleans us only by our having faith that his blood cleans us of the sins you repent of. It means you do not have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals; it doesn't mean you don't have to obey anymore.

Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[God's Truth]

Actually, the Lord said HIS words were "spirit" - lower case "s."

Big difference.

Rom. 5:6-8.

It makes no difference.

 

[glorydaz]

So?! Jesus said his words were SPIRIT.

So? You don't think the revelations He gave Paul were Spirit and Life? The Gospel, itself, proves you wrong.

Jesus gave Paul the gospel that Jesus preached when he walked the earth.

No, Jesus preached the Kingdom gospel to the Jews when we walked among us. He gave Paul the Gospel of Grace so the Gentiles could be included in the Gift of Salvation.

Jesus is ruling in heaven that is why.

Why what?

Jesus fulfilled the law and give the Spirit as a Helper and a seal to those who believe and obey.

Through the obedience of ONE (the Lord Jesus Christ), many are made righteous. Salvation cannot be bought by your attempts to obey.

According to you, Jesus came and said a lot of things in 3 1/2 years just to have it nullified? No way that is not true.

Nope. Just because you don't understand His purpose for preaching the Law doesn't mean He didn't have one.

Jesus taught the law of the Spirit.

No, He didn't....not until after He had risen, and then He gave Paul revelation concerning being freed from the law of sin and death by the Spirit of LIFE in Christ. In the flesh, Christ preached the Law of sin and death.

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.​

Jesus taught while he was on the earth the law of the Spirit and then he said when he dies and ascends back to heaven he will give the Spirit to those who believe and obey.

Nope. You won't find obeying in the Gospel of Grace. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Saved by Grace through faith...not of yourselves lest any should boast. You boast, so you hate having that taken away from you. :nono:

 

[glorydaz]

It’s doctrine:

Regeneration Comes first, initiated by God:

“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.”
**Ezekiel‬ *36:26-27‬ *NASB‬‬


“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
**John‬ *1:12-13‬ *NASB‬‬

This new heart produces Conversion; which is the systematic doctrine of faith and repentance. They go hand in hand.

Faith
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
**Ephesians‬ *2:8‬ *NASB‬‬

Repentance
Cited above

Ah, THAT "doctrine". No need for the Gospel to be preached at all with that doctrine. :sigh:


We are begotten by the Gospel when we believe.

We hear, trust, believe and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

 

[glorydaz]

It makes no difference.

And that's why you're so confused about the meaning of spirit.

 

[Judson50]

Ah, THAT "doctrine". No need for the Gospel to be preached at all with that doctrine. :sigh:


We are begotten by the Gospel when we believe.

We hear, trust, believe and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

Yes.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[God's Truth]

So? You don't think the revelations He gave Paul were Spirit and Life? The Gospel, itself, proves you wrong.

I told you that Jesus gave the one and only gospel to Paul the same gospel Jesus preached.

No, Jesus preached the Kingdom gospel to the Jews when we walked among us. He gave Paul the Gospel of Grace so the Gentiles could be included in the Gift of Salvation.

That is nonsense. Jesus didn’t tell the Jews to obey and then tell Paul to tell the Gentiles they don’t have to obey.

Why what?

We are to look at each other spiritually.

Through the obedience of ONE (the Lord Jesus Christ), many are made righteous. Salvation cannot be bought by your attempts to obey.

You have to actually obey and not just attempt to obey.

Nope. Just because you don't understand His purpose for preaching the Law doesn't mean He didn't have one.

Jesus’ words are Spirit and life and they are not dead now.

No, He didn't....not until after He had risen, and then He gave Paul revelation concerning being freed from the law of sin and death by the Spirit of LIFE in Christ. In the flesh, Christ preached the Law of sin and death.

Jesus preached LIFE not death!

John 8:51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Nope. You won't find obeying in the Gospel of Grace. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Saved by Grace through faith...not of yourselves lest any should boast. You boast, so you hate having that taken away from you.

Paul boasted and said we can boast. However, you haven’t heard me boast, but you say it anyways.

 

[God's Truth]

And that's why you're so confused about the meaning of spirit.

No, I am not confused. I know and understand God, like He says in the Bible.

 

[glorydaz]

I told you that Jesus gave the one and only gospel to Paul the same gospel Jesus preached.

No sense reading any further. This is why you still aren't saved. :nono:

 

[God's Truth]

No sense reading any further. This is why you still aren't saved. :nono:

I am saved.

 

[glorydaz]

I am saved.

If you were, you would not be spreading the false gospel you do.

 

[God's Truth]

If you were, you would not be spreading the false gospel you do.

It is not false.

 

[TestedandTried]

There is a distinction to be made when it comes to forgiveness as I see it. The Matthew passages teach to confront with the offense. If there is repentance you forgive. You seem to be reading in a bit on the other passages which plainly state to forgive. Does it mean without confronting the sinner or not. Some folks aren't sincerely looking for an apologetic offender let alone hold out forgiveness to the sinner once they do apologize.
Seems to me that Paul is reminding us of the true goal...forgiveness; winning over a brother living in peace once again remembering that we are all prone to sin, but hopefully are trying to deal with sin and dwelling on love for God and His ways and love for our fellowman.I don't see indiscriminent forgiveness commanded in those passages.
I believe that one can make yet another distinction and that is to make two groups of sinners...believers and unbelievers. We treat them differently. Brothers in Christ require the Matthew passage and others I see as those we warn and rebuke and if no apology we hold hope in our hearts and deal wisely with them. (Remembering that as evangelical Christians we imitate Paul who says he becomes all things to all people in hopes to win them over to Christ.)

 

[God's Truth]

There is a distinction to be made when it comes to forgiveness as I see it. The Matthew passages teach to confront with the offense. If there is repentance you forgive. You seem to be reading in a bit on the other passages which plainly state to forgive. Does it mean without confronting the sinner or not. Some folks aren't sincerely looking for an apologetic offender let alone hold out forgiveness to the sinner once they do apologize.
Seems to me that Paul is reminding us of the true goal...forgiveness; winning over a brother living in peace once again remembering that we are all prone to sin, but hopefully are trying to deal with sin and dwelling on love for God and His ways and love for our fellowman.I don't see indiscriminent forgiveness commanded in those passages.
I believe that one can make yet another distinction and that is to make two groups of sinners...believers and unbelievers. We treat them differently. Brothers in Christ require the Matthew passage and others I see as those we warn and rebuke and if no apology we hold hope in our hearts and deal wisely with them. (Remembering that as evangelical Christians we imitate Paul who says he becomes all things to all people in hopes to win them over to Christ.)

I think what you said is very well said.

Jesus showed us that we have to forgive to be saved, even if the person does not ask for forgiveness.

Jesus showed us that when he forgave those who beat and crucified him.

However, those people who did that still have to also obey God and repent and forgive others.

We see too that Stephen forgave those who were stoning him to death. He forgave them when they did not ask for forgiveness.

Of course we are not expected to go to everyone we have offended and ask for forgiveness, but if a relative it can more easily be done and more logical.

…unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart; Matthew 18:35.

...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Matthew 6:14

...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15

Welcome to TOL.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No, He didn't....not until after He had risen, and then He gave Paul revelation concerning being freed from the law of sin and death by the Spirit of LIFE in Christ. In the flesh, Christ preached the Law of sin and death.

No.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Nope. You won't find obeying in the Gospel of Grace. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Saved by Grace through faith...not of yourselves lest any should boast. You boast, so you hate having that taken away from you. :nono:

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

LA